Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769405' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:21 AM']Me too, but the way to change their views would require that all Catholics once again believe that Christ is the sole savior of the world.[/quote] I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that view...-Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769405' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:21 AM']Me too, but the way to change their views would require that all Catholics once again believe that Christ is the sole savior of the world.[/quote] Also, I cannot change their views. They are responsible for that. If they have incorrect assumptions, I can try to show them that their assumptions are wrong, but I cannot make anyone change their views. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769424' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:30 PM']Also, I cannot change their views. They are responsible for that. If they have incorrect assumptions, I can try to show them that their assumptions are wrong, but I cannot make anyone change their views. -Katie[/quote] The question is: are their assumptions incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769432' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:33 AM']The question is: are their assumptions incorrect?[/quote] Yes, they are. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769434' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:34 PM']Yes, they are. -Katie[/quote] I have my doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769444' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:38 AM']I have my doubts.[/quote] I think the Eastern Church just has a different way of thinking than the Roman Catholic Church...maybe it's a cultural thing? -Katie Edit: I totally don't mean that in a negative way or anything, I think that the worldviews differ culturally. Edited February 2, 2009 by Tinkerlina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769449' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:39 PM']I think the Eastern Church just has a different way of thinking than the Roman Catholic Church...maybe it's a cultural thing? -Katie[/quote] It's more a theological "thing". The Eastern Orthodox have suffered for their faith in Christ, and they won't budge on dogmatic issues, while the inter-religious dialogue of the Catholic Church tries to say that all religions are the same, at least to some degree, e.g., Muslims worship the true God, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769456' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:42 AM']It's more a theological "thing". The Eastern Orthodox have suffered for their faith in Christ, and they won't budge on dogmatic issues, while the inter-religious dialogue of the Catholic Church tries to say that all religions are the same, at least to some degree, e.g., Muslims worship the true God, etc.[/quote] Roman Catholics have also suffered for their faith in Christ (England, Ireland, in particular, come to mind in fairly recent history and both Roman and Eastern Catholics were persecuted under Soviet Rule). Also, if they are basing some of their thinking on having suffered for their faith, perhaps they are subconsciously allowing politics to enter their thinking. I don't think the interreligious dialogue of the Roman Catholic Church is saying that all religions are the same at all, just that we recognize that other faiths can have some truth and good, which I don't think it so shocking. -Katie Edited February 2, 2009 by Tinkerlina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769462' date='Feb 1 2009, 11:44 PM']Roman Catholics have also suffered for their faith in Christ (England, Ireland, in particular, come to mind in fairly recent history and both Roman and Eastern Catholics were persecuted under Soviet Rule). Also, if they are basing some of their thinking on having suffered for their faith, perhaps they are subconsciously allowing politics to enter their thinking. I don't think the interreligious dialogue of the Roman Catholic Church is saying that all religions are the same at all, just that we recognize that other faiths can have some truth and good, which I don't think it so shocking. -Katie[/quote] Roman Catholics will understand the Orthodox better when a Muslim Ulema stands at the altar of St. Peter's and declares that Church a mosque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769483' date='Feb 2 2009, 01:53 AM']Roman Catholics will understand the Orthodox better when a Muslim Ulema stands at the altar of St. Peter's and declares that Church a mosque.[/quote] word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1769462' date='Feb 2 2009, 08:44 AM']Roman Catholics have also suffered for their faith in Christ (England, Ireland, in particular, come to mind in fairly recent history and both Roman and Eastern Catholics were persecuted under Soviet Rule). Also, if they are basing some of their thinking on having suffered for their faith, perhaps they are subconsciously allowing politics to enter their thinking. I don't think the interreligious dialogue of the Roman Catholic Church is saying that all religions are the same at all, just that we recognize that other faiths can have some truth and good, which I don't think it so shocking. -Katie[/quote] The Recusant times in England were brought about precisely because Catholics would [i]not[/i] worship at Anglican services and insisted on attending necessarily secret Masses. There was no "ecumenism" going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1769617' date='Feb 2 2009, 05:54 AM']The Recusant times in England were brought about precisely because Catholics would [i]not[/i] worship at Anglican services and insisted on attending necessarily secret Masses. There was no "ecumenism" going on there.[/quote] Oh, I reailze that- it was actually a lack of religious dialogue (and of course, lots of politics) that led to persecution of Catholics. The Anglican Church (well, really the British Government) was persecuting those of a different faith. -Katie Edited February 3, 2009 by Tinkerlina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769483' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:53 AM']Roman Catholics will understand the Orthodox better when a Muslim Ulema stands at the altar of St. Peter's and declares that Church a mosque.[/quote] Because we all know that's what interreligious dialogue is all about. Converting the Catholic Church to Islam. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1769483' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:53 AM']Roman Catholics will understand the Orthodox better when a Muslim Ulema stands at the altar of St. Peter's and declares that Church a mosque.[/quote] The Christain Byzantine Empire didn't take land and opress religious minorities? I can understand the emotion amongst Eastern Catholics who currently in a Muslim majority country where they suffer from descrimination or if they were still suffering the results, but I don't see the use in holding a grudge over something that happened hundreds of years ago. It's not like we are talking about the Russians still being bitter at the Tatars, rather it sounds like being bitter towards the religion of the empire that attacked you. That seems like Jews disliking all Eastern Christians because of the suffering they endured under the Byzantium empire and historically all over Eastern Europe. Not to mention the suffering of Muslims at the hands of Christians. Edited February 3, 2009 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1770332' date='Feb 2 2009, 11:15 PM'] Because we all know that's what interreligious dialogue is all about. Converting the Catholic Church to Islam. -Katie[/quote] I guess what I don't understand is how praying with other religions is compromising the Catholic faith. I could understand if the Pope went to a Mosque and adressed "Allah" in an open prayer, but simply gathering together and each member praying silently to their God? Would that be ok Apo? Like could Jews, Christians, and Muslims all adress a generic prayer to "The God of Abraham"? What about something like when the Pope kissed the Qur'an? [img]http://truereligiondebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/popejpkissingkoran.jpg[/img] I mean I understand that is not a prayer but simply showing respect to a faith's religious object, but what are the exact limits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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