Initial Conversion

[Brother Adam]

Yes, it is the attitude. It has nothing to do with doctrine. Not in the least.

[dUSt]

Ironmonk, I agree that a few of your comments seemed condescending. I went back and edited the few that caught my attention.

There's a time to bring out the sword and shield, and there's a time to bring out the crumpets and tea. Bro Adam has been around here long enough for us to know that he's not here in attack mode.

God bless.

[jasJis]

[color=yellow]~[/color]

Edited March 19, 2004 by jasJis

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 18 2004, 09:08 PM'] Yes, it is the attitude. It has nothing to do with doctrine. Not in the least. [/quote]
How many times do I have to say THERE [b][u]WAS [/u][/b]NO ATTITUDE?

[color=red][Edited by dUSt: Uncharitable Comment][/color]

You have applied attitude where there was none. The attitude you saw is what you assumed it should be, not what it was.

Why do you continue to say there is attitude instead of just answering the questions I asked?

I would like an answer to them. I want an answer because there might be something I'm missing. If you are unable to answer them, does that mean your missing something?

[color=red][Edited by dUSt: Uncharitable Comment][/color]

God's truth is absolute. I want that absolute truth. If I am wrong, show me. If not, then accept God's truth.

The questions I posed, the scripture and ECF's I quoted were reference to show that I don't understand how the fundie view adds up. Nothing more. No attitude.

Now there is attitude in this because I'm sick of people applying a wrong tone to what I write.

What I wrote is simple... I believe that anyone who has issues with it, it is because it's simple and to the point... well studied... and irrefutable. Each time someone says "take a deep breath" - "you've got an attitude" - etc... to posts that I just point out the facts of the bible, the Early Church Fathers, and basic logic just proves that the information given is irrefutable.

Saying "you're rude" because of a laundry list of facts is a guise to avoid the questions.

Avoid them all you like... the facts remain. You have to ask yourself "What does it mean if I can't answer the questions?"

With every post you do to me without answering the questions you only reassure me that I answered properly... because the evidence is there and they are facts that you cannot refuse... It will be in the back of your mind, even if you leave the board... it will eat at you.... and then you will accept it... because you know it to be truth. You are the most Catholic "baptist" I know. There are no other baptists that believe the way you do. You accept things that every baptist that I have ever met rejects with a red face.

Rather you like the methods or not, I'm not one to beat around the bush. It might be 10 minutes, it might be ten years... The facts (if you read them) are set and the dominoes are falling... you will either accept the truth or reject it. I think you'll accept it, even though you don't want it to be true because that is a big step for you. When your ready to take it your virtual family is here, and whatever new Parish you end up at will be there for you too... there will be a party in Heaven. I think you'll accept the truth in time because if you don't all this work you have done will be in vain.




dust,

There was no sword and shield... there were a few wake up statments after the fact of the facts posted.
-------------------


I'm trying to get people to think... to many people fail to think.

Other Catholics should be getting people to think instead of just saying "oh, that's nice, but I disagree"...

We all need to ask "why" of everything....


The only harmony of Scriptures is with the Catholic Church.

I will now up the pot... anyone who can prove the Catholic Church wrong on faith and morals I will give 1/2 of my Teen Arrive Alive stock to. This should amount to tens of thousands per year in dividends. (Nextel is backing it, AMLS is backing it, now looks like Microsoft will be also - the meeting went well)


If the Catholic Church is wrong it would be worth the $55k/yr to give up.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[HS_Dad]

I haven't read through the whole thread... I just want to throw
this in.

I'm in RCIA and I am planning on being received for Easter Vigil....

Anyways, as someone who is quite familiar with the inner workings of
the evangelical imagination.... I think most Catholics don't quite
"get" what Evangelicals mean when they say "faith alone"... The point
isn't that it is "about me" or "saying the prayer"... The point is
that only through believing in Christ and accepting the gift of his
grace can we be saved... There is also an emphasis that it is
"not of works"... not to denigrate works but to make it clear that
it is all about Christ. I struggled quite a bit with this idea when
examining Catholicism. The way I see the Catholic view now, which I
believe is quite biblical, is that faith must produce fruit. Therefore
our works are an integral aspect of God's continuing work of salvation
through the transforming of our spirits to be more Christlike.
(Feel free to correct me if I am not quite getting the Catholic
nuances right.)

Just some opening thoughts.

-_-

[Livin_the_MASS]

MATTEW 10:34-36

[quote]"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother in law; and one's enemies will be those of his household.'"[/quote]

I'm posting this ironmonk because I see what your saying. But remember Our Lord also told us to love our eneimes. I say that because thats a big commandment to follow. "What ever you do to the least of my brethren you do to me." It's hard to give witness and stay calm. Words are powerful if there said, or read, it don't matter. The way things are put, you can pick up things. I don't say this against anybody, Just remember we are all brothers in Christ. Ironmonk I think what they are saying is, and I can see it on your new post, that first or last you type in a defense against a comment that was directed to you and you can tell your upset. Just by the way it's put. You give great witness man, I love reading your stuff like I said you have a gift. Remember God is Mercy and Love Itself, and we all have to practice it. It's not easy thats why we need Him in the Eucharist. "Apart from me you can do nothing." You have a lot of zeal that's good!

[quote]The only harmony of Scriptures is with the Catholic Church. [/quote]

I agree with this statement with all my heart, I believe in the ONE CATHOLIC CHURCH! "The gates of hell will not prevail against it" God is love we all can't forget that! He is in control! It's His Church it's made it this far it's going all the way because Jesus said so.

Anyway God Bless ironmonk take it easy man. Peace!

[Laudate_Dominum]

ironmonk,

I've been blasted once or twice for supposedly being condescending and uncharitable and all of that when from my experience I was just calmly, casually expressing what I believe to be true without any kind of emotional charge or personal attack intended. When I read your posts defending yourself you expressed thoughts that I've had regarding this.
Just want to say that I can relate. But on the other hand after I've reflected upon the matters I've seen that certain times call for a bit more diplomacy. Not watering down the truth or being indifferent to error, but finding a milder or more reserved way of expressing the truth. I don't know if this helps.. I hope this doesn't sound condescending or rude.

Peace.

[Jericho923]

i wanted just to say that no matter how confident we are about what we believe, if we share it, impose it or imply it without love...it has no value...
how does it go?
"If i speak the tongues of angels and men, and have no love, i am nothing"

[ironmonk]

I'm not going to try to explain it any than it has already been explained, to those that think I was unchairtiable, go back, re-read it while imagining mr. rogers saying it. Otherwise, I really just don't care... I said it wasn't ment that way and that is that - it's over... get on with what is important... Which is truth. Not whatever tone someone thinks I have. I don't have time to waste with dogs that bark at me along my way.

<now I know some here will think "he's talking about me" - NO I am not. I'm trying to get a point accross to people that it is your own conscience that says that to you because I have not called anyone a dog on here. I say things that I think will make people think. If something doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't. Don't twist what I write.>

Why not take the focus off whatever tone anyone has imposed on my posts (or anyone elses for that matter) and address the questions in the post.

Unless questions are asked, and answers given we remain stagnant in our own waste.

Look at how many posts were addressed to my tone even after I explained there was no tone meant. Time to let it go and move on.... or should we say back to the questions? There's much more to life then flipping out over a self imposed tone on someone elses writings.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Livin_the_MASS]

1 Cor 13:1-8

[quote]"If I speak in human and angelic tongues, but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbol. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move moutains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
"If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
"Love never fails......"[/quote]


[quote]"If i speak the tongues of angels and men, and have no love, i am nothing"[/quote]

Good one, here is the whole thing!
God Bless

[dUSt]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 18 2004, 10:58 PM'] Look at how many posts were addressed to my tone even after I explained there was no tone meant. Time to let it go and move on.... or should we say back to the questions? There's much more to life then flipping out over a self imposed tone on someone elses writings. [/quote]
I think a simple, "I'm sorry" would have diffused the situation quite nicely.

God bless.

[Brother Adam]

Dust,

Is there anyway to set up a thread where only two or three people can post?

[Aloysius]

you know, i think it's been done b4 when someone requested it be only one person and him talking (truth and ironmonk if i remember correctly) so i guess start it and in the title specify only specific names to post, then the mods (if they accept your request) will delete anyone else's posts.

like make the topic "Initial Conversion" or whatever and in the subtitle "phatCatholic only please" or something, i'm sure the mods will respect it.

[M.SIGGA]

Would anyone (hint: Dust?) like to reconsider my "Evangelism 101" thread in Feedback&Suggestions? because it's really needed here. It's really sad when progressive interfaith/denomination/catholic dialogue like this crashes and burns.

[KennC]

HS_Dad;

"I'm in RCIA and I am planning on being received for Easter Vigil...."

Welcome to the Faith and I'll add your "handle" to my Prayer list for those in RCIA.

Ken