MithLuin Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) [indent]Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" Jesus answered, [color="red"]"Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?" [/color] Pilate answered, "I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?" Jesus answered, [color="red"]"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm." [/color] Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, [color="red"]"You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." [/color] Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews and said to them, "I find no guilt in Him." [i]John 18:33-38[/i][/indent] Alright, Phatmassers, I'd like some help. I am currently involved in a conversation with an individual who is not a Christian and (to my knowledge) does not really believe in God. He's more likely to trust a religious experience that has a lot more to do with doubt than faith. How do I explain to him what truth [i]is[/i]? He knows plenty of philosophy, so you can be as technical as you'd like. I'm kinda stuck, because it is so blindingly obvious to me that I don't have a definition. I think we understand how people [i]experience[/i] truth, or recognize it...but what [i]is[/i] it? He's very post-modernist, so we both feel like we're talking past each other most of the time. Oh, and if the answer to the question is "Jesus", I need some more details or explanations about that.... What I am up against: [quote]My point was that we never really know the truth because we never really have any fundamental criteria for establishing its nature. Therefore, what would ordinarily be considered “false” or “wrong” according to our pre-established (read idealistic) standards for truth could and often does turn out to be “truth” according to some other standard for truth that dawns on us later. Thus, as new and possibly contradictory criteria for truth break in on us, our prior conceptions of truth are modified, remaining themselves still contingent in relation to possible future modifications of the criteria.[/quote] Thanks! Edited January 29, 2009 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 To me the Truth are those things that we "know" deep inside, but try to run from. Pilate's flip remark was because he didn't want to think about Jesus' supernatural life. It would have made it harder to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Truth is what is. *shrugs* Things like this are easier if you don't know any philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Truth: Statement = reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 That whole relativistic "There is no truth" doesn't even make sense. As I've read it in this booklet, "How to Stay Catholic in College" the statement "there is no truth" refutes itself because even saying "there is no truth" is not true. When the author of that same booklet guest starred on Life on the Rock last summer he told the story of how he was talking with someone who said, "Think about it, either Jesus is God or He isn't." Or (this is my own example) either Mary was conceived without sin or she wasn't. You only have two options and only one of them can be right. Have you read up or looked up any G.K. Chesterton literature? I know that he wrote about what truth was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Truth is that which conforms with reality. However, atheists rightly suspect that they may be painted into corners by this definition. So they redefine it in varying ways. The common theme of these redefinitions is that reality is what is whereas truth is merely a human perception of what is. Pretty much everything that can be thrown at you is found in the wiki: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I cannot be true that there is no truth. Good luck convincing him of this logical fallacy. It's much easier to float in the bog of relativism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) It's not that he thinks there is no truth. He thinks that, whatever the truth is, we have no way of knowing it. So, what we claim is 'truth' today becomes a falsehood tomorrow, and what we claim is false today may very well turn out to be true tomorrow. He more wants a definitive definition of truth. Without this, he thinks it is fairly meaningless to throw around the word 'truth' if we don't know what we're talking about. But I do agree that relativism is a mess Thanks for the wikipedia entry; I didn't even think to check that, for some reason! Edited January 29, 2009 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) [quote name='MithLuin' post='1765566' date='Jan 29 2009, 08:49 AM']It's not that he thinks there is no truth. He thinks that, whatever the truth is, we have no way of knowing it.[/quote] If he doesn't believe that truth is a knowable, intelligible reality, then you won't ever be able to give him a satisfactory answer using intelligible language. He has as a premise that you cannot possible know truth, whatever it is. How can you possibly give him an answer he'll be happy with if your attempts at truth are inevitably obscured. To us, the truth is not something hidden in a black box under the presidential armored car that none of us can see except Al Gore. It is knowable, it is intelligble, it is definable. It is something we can enter into communion with and let it change our lives. Until he is willing to admit that we CAN know truth, he will never be open to an acceptable definition. Edited January 29, 2009 by Veridicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Philosophers are all damned. Relativism is their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 This remind me of my favoriate painting in my first yearof two of High School. I found it in a Wheelock's Latin book and loved it. [img]http://images.quickblogcast.com/110844-103597/ge_truth.jpg[/img] Quod Est Veritas? Christ and Pilate (1890) by Nikolai Ge I thought you all might like it becaue of the rich religious irony in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1768337' date='Feb 1 2009, 02:26 AM']This remind me of my favoriate painting in my first yearof two of High School. I found it in a Wheelock's Latin book and loved it. [img]http://images.quickblogcast.com/110844-103597/ge_truth.jpg[/img] Quod Est Veritas? Christ and Pilate (1890) by Nikolai Ge I thought you all might like it becaue of the rich religious irony in it.[/quote] Haha, that Pilate is standing in the light when he says it is perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1765348' date='Jan 29 2009, 01:21 AM']Truth is that which conforms with reality.[/quote] The best answers are the simplest ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1771433' date='Feb 3 2009, 06:59 PM']Haha, that Pilate is standing in the light when he says it is perfect![/quote] I KNOW! It was the first time a painting really took my breath away. It still does every now and then Unfortunatly the Russian Orthox Church tried to supress it at the time. Ge painted out of real religious devotion and faith, but apparently the Church didn't appreciate the irony and objected to his depiction of Christ as ragged and beaten down. Edited February 8, 2009 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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