Why Do Some Christians Say Catholics Aren't Christian?

[Giolla]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1764010' date='Jan 27 2009, 09:23 PM']Why do we say Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons aren't Christians? It is because they hold beliefs that are incompatible with orthodox Christian teaching.[/quote]

But if you look into their doctrine they are not what a Christian is, and most is bordering on heresy.

[XIX]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1764010' date='Jan 27 2009, 09:23 PM']Why do we say Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons aren't Christians? It is because they hold beliefs that are incompatible with orthodox Christian teaching.[/quote]
Basically, JWs and Mormons reject the Trinity. They don't believe Jesus is God, hence they are not technically Christians.

[MithLuin]

Well, yes, I know .

But that's my point. When other Christians say that Catholics aren't Christian, this is what they mean.

[Nihil Obstat]

Always ask them to define what they mean by Christian before you start on that.
After you've established that, it's pretty simple to prove that we are.

"To be a Christian you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour."
*point to crucifix*

[tinytherese]

Yea this issue really gets to me. In fact it's probably my biggest pet pieve when people say stuff like, "Yea I'm Catholic but wife is a Christian." Really, I wish that all christians would get the facts straight about each other's denominations, especially protestants getting the facts straight about what we catholics believe.

What's really sad is how many protestants get catholics that have not been properly catechized backed into corners with "Well why do you do this? This doesn't sound christian!" and these catholics don't know what to say, maybe even leave the church because of it. It's just pathetic the state of catechesis in the church is!!! So many go to catholic school for so many years or go to CCD classes for such a long perids of time and yet still don't know the faith. Why is it that non-catholics know their faith far better than we do? Catholic schools from pre-school through high school graduation did little for me. I learned about catholicism from EWTN, not from the catholic school system.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1764360' date='Jan 27 2009, 11:34 PM']Yea this issue really gets to me. In fact it's probably my biggest pet pieve when people say stuff like, "Yea I'm Catholic but wife is a Christian." Really, I wish that all christians would get the facts straight about each other's denominations, especially protestants getting the facts straight about what we catholics believe.

What's really sad is how many protestants get catholics that have not been properly catechized backed into corners with "Well why do you do this? This doesn't sound christian!" and these catholics don't know what to say, maybe even leave the church because of it. It's just pathetic the state of catechesis in the church is!!! So many go to catholic school for so many years or go to CCD classes for such a long perids of time and yet still don't know the faith. Why is it that non-catholics know their faith far better than we do? Catholic schools from pre-school through high school graduation did little for me. I learned about catholicism from EWTN, not from the catholic school system.[/quote]

In some ways, I'm about the best that we get in terms of young people coming out of 'the system'. I don't mean that in an "I'm better" kind of way, but more like I've been incredibly lucky in terms of faith direction. I don't think for a second it was up to anything other than the grace of God, because there's no reason for my faith to be the way it is.
Again, not in a prideful sort of way, but most people I know, and most that I've been in the 'seperate', Catholic system with since grade one, don't really care about the faith.

So it raises the question: is it us, or is it the system? I don't know.

[Arpy]

It's a tool to keep us in our place!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1764360' date='Jan 28 2009, 05:34 AM']Yea this issue really gets to me. In fact it's probably my biggest pet pieve when people say stuff like, "Yea I'm Catholic but wife is a Christian." Really, I wish that all christians would get the facts straight about each other's denominations, especially protestants getting the facts straight about what we catholics believe.

What's really sad is how many protestants get catholics that have not been properly catechized backed into corners with "Well why do you do this? This doesn't sound christian!" and these catholics don't know what to say, maybe even leave the church because of it. It's just pathetic the state of catechesis in the church is!!! So many go to catholic school for so many years or go to CCD classes for such a long perids of time and yet still don't know the faith. Why is it that non-catholics know their faith far better than we do? Catholic schools from pre-school through high school graduation did little for me. I learned about catholicism from EWTN, not from the catholic school system.[/quote]
I know what you mean. A friend of mine freshman year helped me to start asking questions about Catholicism again. She couldn't always answer my questions, but I started researching. Unfortunately, her inability to always answer the questions means that, by senior year, after 4 years of some people systematically challenging her, she left the Church for a non-denominational congregation. I keep meaning to tell her the influence she had on me joining the Church, but never know how to approach it - any ideas?

[Roamin'Catholic]

[quote name='Giolla' post='1764012' date='Jan 27 2009, 09:25 PM']Probably for the same reason that some Catholics (emphasis on some) believe that Protestants are not Christians.[/quote]

What Catholics have reasoned that Protestants are not Christians? They may be heretical but they are still Christian.
They are Christian, however they unfortunately lack the fullness of truth found in the Catholic church due to their heresy.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Roamin'Catholic

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1764458' date='Jan 28 2009, 05:15 AM']I know what you mean. A friend of mine freshman year helped me to start asking questions about Catholicism again. She couldn't always answer my questions, but I started researching. Unfortunately, her inability to always answer the questions means that, by senior year, after 4 years of some people systematically challenging her, she left the Church for a non-denominational congregation. I keep meaning to tell her the influence she had on me joining the Church, but never know how to approach it - any ideas?[/quote]
Send her a card at Easter and thank her for bringing you into the Church.

[Roamin'Catholic]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1764360' date='Jan 28 2009, 01:34 AM']Why is it that non-catholics know their faith far better than we do?[/quote]

Because their Christian "faith" is so juvenile and so dumbed down, it seems a monkey would have the capacity to know and articulate such a faith. The depths of the Catholic faith go far deeper than the shallowness of Protestantism.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Roamin'Catholic' post='1764513' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:50 AM']What Catholics have reasoned that Protestants are not Christians? They may be heretical but they are still Christian.
They are Christian, however they unfortunately lack the fullness of truth found in the Catholic church due to their heresy.[/quote]
First you have to define what a Christian is.... I would start with a baptised person who accepts the Nicene Creed.

[HisChildForever]

I get the most frustrated when a non-Catholic Christian says that Catholics worship Mary and the Saints (some even say the Pope). Okay, huge misconception. So I explain why this is incorrect and what the truth is. However, they continue to tell me that I worship Mary, and yadda yadda. But I am the one who is Catholic here, not them, so why do they not believe what I am saying? I joined CTF and so many people there are just atrocious. One Protestant in a Catholic Q&A thread posted pictures of priests lay prostrate during their ordination (the Pope was the one presiding) and used it as an example of Catholics worshipping the Pope. Needless to say it was taken from a very obvious anti-Catholic and/or fundamentalist website, from what I read in the URLs.

Another argument in this person's post was in rebuttle to some text I offered essentially proving Peter as the first Pope. One example the text said was that whenever the Apostles were listed, Peter always came first (among other things). So this person threw a handful of Biblical locations (not the text, just like 1 Corinthians etc.) and rattled off something. Well, I dutifully looked them up and none of the Scriptural quotes were lists of the Apostles. In fact, one was two lines from the Gospel of John where Philip was being introduced, and it said something like "Philip, from the town of Andrew and Peter" or something. How this disproves Peter as Pope is anyone's guess. This same person had no basic knowledge of the history of the Bible. Another quote [she?] provided was Paul, in 1 Corinthians, where Paul was explaining the need for unification, speaking against separate Christian groups. So because Paul said something like "Do not say 'I belong to Paul' or 'I belong to Cephas'" and since Cephas [Peter] was not mentioned [b]first[/b] then of course he can't be Pope! Completely disregarding that Paul was the one who established the Church in Corinth so naturally he would put himself first, and not only that, but he was imitating what the Christians were saying!

I hate to say it but when in these debates I tend to get prideful and rude, but it is really so frustrating. If I was debating with a logical Protestant who understand Catholic teaching and just disagreed, that would be okay. But debating with these people who insist that Catholicism is what it is not is just...there are no words.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1764543' date='Jan 28 2009, 12:21 PM']I get the most frustrated when a non-Catholic Christian says that Catholics worship Mary and the Saints (some even say the Pope). Okay, huge misconception. So I explain why this is incorrect and what the truth is. However, they continue to tell me that I worship Mary, and yadda yadda. But I am the one who is Catholic here, not them, so why do they not believe what I am saying? I joined CTF and so many people there are just atrocious. One Protestant in a Catholic Q&A thread posted pictures of priests lay prostrate during their ordination (the Pope was the one presiding) and used it as an example of Catholics worshipping the Pope. Needless to say it was taken from a very obvious anti-Catholic and/or fundamentalist website, from what I read in the URLs.

Another argument in this person's post was in rebuttle to some text I offered essentially proving Peter as the first Pope. One example the text said was that whenever the Apostles were listed, Peter always came first (among other things). So this person threw a handful of Biblical locations (not the text, just like 1 Corinthians etc.) and rattled off something. Well, I dutifully looked them up and none of the Scriptural quotes were lists of the Apostles. In fact, one was two lines from the Gospel of John where Philip was being introduced, and it said something like "Philip, from the town of Andrew and Peter" or something. How this disproves Peter as Pope is anyone's guess. This same person had no basic knowledge of the history of the Bible. Another quote [she?] provided was Paul, in 1 Corinthians, where Paul was explaining the need for unification, speaking against separate Christian groups. So because Paul said something like "Do not say 'I belong to Paul' or 'I belong to Cephas'" and since Cephas [Peter] was not mentioned [b]first[/b] then of course he can't be Pope! Completely disregarding that Paul was the one who established the Church in Corinth so naturally he would put himself first, and not only that, but he was imitating what the Christians were saying!

I hate to say it but when in these debates I tend to get prideful and rude, but it is really so frustrating. If I was debating with a logical Protestant who understand Catholic teaching and just disagreed, that would be okay. But debating with these people who insist that Catholicism is what it is not is just...there are no words.[/quote]
I feel your pain. The problem is that you are offering a logical rational argument against an emotional one, and it loses just about everytime. You are arguing against everything they learned in Sunday school, what their grandparents and beloved pastors taught them - people they hold in high esteem. They cannot imagine that these people would even unintentionally deceive them, so you must be wrong.
The way to get around this can be sometimes a simple analogy. Where do they go when they are sick? the doctor. Why? because the doctor has studied for years. So you go to someone who is educated on the topic. Would you go to a mechanic? - no. So why would you go to a non-catholic to ask about being catholic? Its like asking someone who hasn't had a baby what childbirth is like.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1764548' date='Jan 28 2009, 11:32 AM']The way to get around this can be sometimes a simple analogy. Where do they go when they are sick? the doctor. Why? because the doctor has studied for years. So you go to someone who is educated on the topic. Would you go to a mechanic? - no. So why would you go to a non-catholic to ask about being catholic? Its like asking someone who hasn't had a baby what childbirth is like.[/quote]

Oh, that is very clever, thanks. I also try and assure them that I am not trying to convert but to teach. I tell them that if they want to disagree, that's fine, but just understand what you are disagreeing with.

And what you said earlier is also true. They are very passionate when they argue against Catholicism. It's sad how ignorant they look, which is so obvious a non-Christian would pick up on it. Their passion is a spiteful passion, which just gets me defensive and angry because I want to bash them a few times with my Catechism.

[[Edit.]]

Come to think of it, it would be terrific if a non-Catholic Christian stepped into threads like that and explained to fellow non-Catholics "No, you are incorrect, and here is why. Catholics believe..." They would probably be more apt to listen to someone like that than an actual Catholic.

Edited January 28, 2009 by HisChildForever