HisChildForever Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1763319' date='Jan 27 2009, 08:04 AM']lol, first of all I hope he does well etc and I know this is a very serious topic, but I had to reread this like three times because I thought, at first, that you meant he would not share his druges with you.[/quote] GAH. I am not nor ever will be a user. Needless (not trying to pun!) to say, watching him withdraw before rehab was the most pain I have ever seen a person in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1763320' date='Jan 27 2009, 08:09 AM']I believer one of the most sucessfulldrug rehab programs was in Sweaden where they gave the addicts progressively less Heroin ove an extended time. I think by your standards this would not be allowed despite how unsucessfull "cold turky" programs usually are. Also, I doubt many addicts will get a job and get off smack if they are dead from AIDS[/quote] You need to stop assuming you know me. I never said that addicts need to stop cold turkey did I? I disagree with the needle exchange program which at least from what I read, has the attitude of "Ok so and so...do you want to try counseling today? No? Ok here's new needles." Furthermore, I work on a detox unit. Cold turkey vs progressively less Heroin...it doesn't matter. THE PERSON NEEDS TO MAKE A RESOLVE. If someone goes through a detox program they give them the medication they need for the detox. DETOX IS DANGEROUS. I would tell anyone who is addicted to drugs to not stop cold turkey. That could be deadly. They would need to go to a hospital or some sort of group to find out where they can go to detox safely. Am I saying that I want these people to die from AIDS? No...I never said that. I am not saying that it is their fault they should die from the consequences. However, there are many issues that go along with drug use that the needle exchange program does not cover. I would be fine with the needle exchange program if they had some sort of requirement for the exchange. In order to get new needles you need to attend counseling. In order to get new needles you need to show that you are in some sort of group therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1763422' date='Jan 27 2009, 01:09 PM']You need to stop assuming you know me. I never said that addicts need to stop cold turkey did I? I disagree with the needle exchange program which at least from what I read, has the attitude of "Ok so and so...do you want to try counseling today? No? Ok here's new needles." Furthermore, I work on a detox unit. Cold turkey vs progressively less Heroin...it doesn't matter. THE PERSON NEEDS TO MAKE A RESOLVE. If someone goes through a detox program they give them the medication they need for the detox. DETOX IS DANGEROUS. I would tell anyone who is addicted to drugs to not stop cold turkey. That could be deadly. They would need to go to a hospital or some sort of group to find out where they can go to detox safely.[/quote] ok Also I have/had drug users/drunks in my family. I know that without resolve nothing will change [quote]Am I saying that I want these people to die from AIDS? No...I never said that. I am not saying that it is their fault they should die from the consequences. However, there are many issues that go along with drug use that the needle exchange program does not cover.[/quote] I was responding to this. [i]How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t. [/i] my point is that individuals who are dead after contracting AIDS are very unlikely to seek help. The point of the Needle exchange is to retard the spread of AIDS and to perhapse keep them alive long enough that they will have a change of heart. [quote]I would be fine with the needle exchange program if they had some sort of requirement for the exchange. In order to get new needles you need to attend counseling. In order to get new needles you need to show that you are in some sort of group therapy.[/quote] that might be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1764386' date='Jan 28 2009, 01:16 AM']ok I was responding to this. [i]How many of these same people are homeless? Jobless? Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. How does the needle exchange program help in the bigger picture? It doesn’t. [/i] my point is that individuals who are dead after contracting AIDS are very unlikely to seek help. The point of the Needle exchange is to retard the spread of AIDS and to perhapse keep them alive long enough that they will have a change of heart.[/quote] And my point was that if the needle exchange program has nothing but give out the needles then what is the point? YOu are doing nothing but retard the spread and in the bigger picture of things, that helps very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The problem are those people who are only interested in needles and not changing their behavior. Do we let them continue their behavior? Lock them up in halfway houses? What is a balanced approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1764415' date='Jan 28 2009, 02:56 AM']And my point was that if the needle exchange program has nothing but give out the needles then what is the point? YOu are doing nothing but retard the spread and in the bigger picture of things, that helps very little.[/quote] I this retarding the spread of AIDS is a fine goal in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1764536' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:54 AM']I this retarding the spread of AIDS is a fine goal in itself.[/quote] Condoms helps retard the spread of AIDS too in most cases. Does that make using condoms an ok thing to do? Edited January 28, 2009 by picchick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Systematically castrating all the men with AIDS in africa would quite quickly decrease the AIDS problem there as well. Ends do not justify means. Its called Principle of Double Effect. Dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1766587' date='Jan 30 2009, 02:14 AM']Systematically castrating all the men with AIDS in africa would quite quickly decrease the AIDS problem there as well. Ends do not justify means. Its called Principle of Double Effect. Dig.[/quote] I was waiting for you to reply to this. Castrating won't help though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1762405' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:51 PM']+J.M.J.+ are needle exchange programs a good or bad idea?[/quote] Hmmm, I'll have to think about this. My initial reaction is no, because it seems to "condone" drug use. However, in the fact of an overwhelming problem, it seems like it might be a short term solution that would result in saving lives. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 +J.M.J.+ what about 'safe injection sites'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1766939' date='Jan 30 2009, 07:24 PM']I was waiting for you to reply to this. Castrating won't help though...[/quote] Wait...I guess in a way it would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote name='picchick' post='1767035' date='Jan 30 2009, 09:58 PM']Wait...I guess in a way it would...[/quote] Lol. Good luck with that quest...-Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' post='1767004' date='Jan 30 2009, 08:30 PM']+J.M.J.+ what about 'safe injection sites'?[/quote] Do people know that it costs about $50+ to administer an injection in a clinic or hospital setting? Again, inflation but that is just one more thing that prevents children and adults alike from seeking health care. Yet we are going to sanction safe injection sites where needles and health care will be provided to drug users? Again, if there was some sort of requirements set up then I could see using it but where is the money coming from for these facilities? There are people in the Appalachian region who have no health care. Children in that area die from disease that we have been vaccinated for. Things that are no longer deadly for us are still deadly for the people in that region. AND THIS IS IN THE UNITED STATES! I cannot see money going towards this when people are suffering for a lack of basic medical care. I understand addictionology. I understand the disease process. I do not see this as helpful to stopping drug use. People die from the trafficking of drugs. How can we support the use of drugs and an addiction? Again, maybe if it was used with a rehab approach it would be different. However, the programs that I have read about in the US has no such thing. They have screenings and then hand outs. Sorry, that is not how I work. Edited January 31, 2009 by picchick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I should also add that many of the people using the needle exchange program cannot afford health care themselves. Furthermore, they have several comorbidities such as diabetes, malnutrition, heart issues. Why do we not work on treating these? Diabetes takes such a toll on the health care system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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