Virginity A Tool To Keep Women In Their Place

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1761962' date='Jan 26 2009, 01:26 AM']Its not kindness to call a sin by some less upsetting name.[/quote]

We are not calling the sin by some upsetting name. It is prostitution. It is the selling of her body.

We are calling the sinner by an upsetting name... and well... I am not comfortable with it. She is still a creation of God. She is a beautiful woman. The term "whore" well... it is more then just an occupation, at least it is where I am from. It is a term like calling someone trash. It is just... it might not be the appropriate term to use here, despite if technically, according to the dictionary, that is what they would call those doing what she is doing.

Edited January 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Saint Therese]

I don't know. People tend to think of prostitutes as victims, and some may be. But they don't just sell themselves. They are experts at leading others into sin. And many do more than just sell sex. They often rob,steal, sell drugs, are members of organized crime, etc.
There must be a balance between thinking of them as total victims who aren't responsible for their behavior and realizing that their behavior has consequences.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Saint Therese

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1761962' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:26 AM']Its not kindness to call a sin by some less upsetting name.[/quote]


[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1762029' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:59 AM']I don't think we should be labelling her as a person. Her behavior is obviously sinful, but we don't know what issues she has going on that brought her to this sad state. -Katie[/quote]


[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1762133' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:24 AM']I don't know. People tend to think of prostitutes as victims, and some may be. But they don't just sell themselves. They are experts at leading others into sin. And many do more than just sell sex. They often rob,steal, sell drugs, are members of organized crime, etc.
There must be a balance between thinking of them as total victims who aren't responsible for their behavior and realizing that their behavior has consequences.[/quote]


Thank you for your broad generalizations.

No one is arguing defense of the behaviour, we are arguing the insult to the dignity (of the creature of God- which shouldn't be debated as it is inherent) of a person.

Labeling something as a sin is one thing

Condemning the sinner is another.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1762133' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:24 AM']I don't know. People tend to think of prostitutes as victims, and some may be. But they don't just sell themselves. They are experts at leading others into sin. And many do more than just sell sex. They often rob,steal, sell drugs, are members of organized crime, etc.
There must be a balance between thinking of them as total victims who aren't responsible for their behavior and realizing that their behavior has consequences.[/quote]

I can highly recommend the group, "Not For Sale." They advocate against slave trade world wide, and many Catholic social justice groups work with them. I was privileged to work with them in Florida. Walking through a small trailer outside a migrant farm worker camp, where a dozen Mexican girls were held as sex slaves, was life changing. Of course, I'm a bleeding heart pinko.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1762133' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:24 AM']I don't know. People tend to think of prostitutes as victims, and some may be. But they don't just sell themselves. They are experts at leading others into sin. And many do more than just sell sex. They often rob,steal, sell drugs, are members of organized crime, etc.
There must be a balance between thinking of them as total victims who aren't responsible for their behavior and realizing that their behavior has consequences.[/quote]

I don't have a problem saying that she is a prostitute, but that is not what we were saying she was.

We were saying she was a whore, which technically is the same thing according to the definition but in my book and where I am from... it is more. It is a term which degrades the dignity of the person. It is like seriously calling someone: trash, sl*t, or ho. Maybe it is different elsewhere, which is why there is this confusion.

And I agree with you that prostitutes lead others into sin. I also think they are victims as well. I agree we must see things in a balance. Anyway, I am not trying to say that prostitutes are innocent or what they are doing is not wrong or anything. I am just saying that perhaps we shouldn't call them whores... it means much more in some places then what the dictionary says it means. It is a term which insults human dignity. It is a bit cruel.

I don't think anyone here was meaning to attack her dignity as a human person though or say anything very unkind about her personally. I think maybe in different parts the word it is more acceptable to use and doesn't have such a cruel meaning. Where I am from it does. You can call a woman walking down the street a prostitute. It is unfortunate, but it is not offensive. That is her occupation. However, to call her a whore is kind of like saying she is dirty or less-than.

Edited January 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Sirklawd]

choice quotes from the article =

[i]"I’m a 22-year-old woman who recently earned her Bachelor’s Degree in Women’s Studies, and soon I’ll be entering a Masters Degree program in Marriage and Family Therapy."[/i]

this is why no one should take women's studies classes. also, shes going into marriage nad family therapy?? LOL what? shouldnt the pre-req for that be 'thinking marriage is a good thing'

[i]"In fact, it started in college, where my eyes were opened by my Women’s Studies professors and fellow classmates. I came to understand the role of "woman" spanning culture and time. At the university level, I was given permission to think differently and form a moral code of my own design. College opened my eyes."[/i]

No one should take a women's studies class. ever.

Real men of courage, faith, purity, and dignity need to stand up for these women. They have lost hope that they could ever be loved with true equal dignity, and in that hopelessness they turn to the only conclusion they can see - become just as selfish and 'controling' as they see men are since that's where the "power" is.

It's so sad that such ridiculous notions of love and relationships could be accepted so easily by young girls. This is the real problem.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1762153' date='Jan 25 2009, 11:37 PM']I can highly recommend the group, "Not For Sale." They advocate against slave trade world wide, and many Catholic social justice groups work with them. I was privileged to work with them in Florida. Walking through a small trailer outside a migrant farm worker camp, where a dozen Mexican girls were held as sex slaves, was life changing. Of course, I'm a bleeding heart pinko.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
i've seen some tv specials (i think it was MSNBC?) on the sex slave trade in America. i was practically crying by the time this (only an hour long) show was over

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1762142' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:30 AM']Thank you for your broad generalizations.

No one is arguing defense of the behaviour, we are arguing the insult to the dignity (of the creature of God- which shouldn't be debated as it is inherent) of a person.

Labeling something as a sin is one thing

Condemning the sinner is another.[/quote]
You are the only one who brought up condemnation, I simply used the correct term, if you want to play with euphemisms, be my guest. There is no difference between a prostitute and a whore.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Whatever the language is that we choose to use I think we can agree that we should all be praying for her, for those "bidding" on her, and for our society.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1762133' date='Jan 26 2009, 01:24 AM']They are experts at leading others into sin.[/quote]

Right, because she is solely responsible for the man who seeks her out.

[quote]They often rob,steal, sell drugs, are members of organized crime, etc.[/quote]

Source?

For those of you who call this poor girl a "whore."

[b] Men call up the image of the whore when they are abusing their partners. The accusations in between the kicks and slaps: "You silly sally....whore...." Historically, the words mean "subhuman," "having no rights," "invisible," and "wicked." As recently as 1991, police in a southern California community closed all rape reports made by prostitutes and addicts, placing them in a file stamped "NHI." The letters stand for the words "No Human Involved." (Linda Fairstein, Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, 1993, New York, William Morrow.) [/b]

And some more disturbing information:

[b] The male sexuality in prostitution is "male masturbation in a female body." (Hanna Olsson, regarding a study of Swedish prostitution, quoted by Kathleen Barry in The Prostitution of Sexuality, 1995, New York, New York University Press) In prostitution, "men buy not a self but a body that performs as a self, and it is a self that conforms to the most harmful, damaging, racist and sexist concepts of women..." (Kathleen Barry, The Prostitution of Sexuality, 1995, New York, New York University Press) [/b]

[b] Prostitution is an act of violence against women which is intrinsically traumatizing. In a study of 475 people in prostitution (including women, men, and the transgendered) from five countries (South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, USA, and Zambia):

62% reported having been raped in prostitution.
73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution.
72% were currently or formerly homeless.
92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately.
(Melissa Farley, Isin Baral, Merab Kiremire, Ufuk Sezgin, "Prostitution in Five Countries: Violence and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder" (1998) Feminism & Psychology 8 (4): 405-426 [/b]

Source: [url="http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/factsheet.html"]http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/factsheet.html[/url]

[b] In Order to Understand Prostitution

In order to understand prostitution, it is necessary to understand:



lethal gender inequality


incest and other childhood sexual assault


poverty and homelessness


the ways in which racism and colonialism are inextricably connected with sexism in prostitution


domestic violence, including rape


posttraumatic stress disorder, depression, mood and dissociative disorders as consequences of prostitution


drug and alcohol addiction


the fact that prostitution is a global business which involves interstate and inter-country trafficking as a necessary part of its profitable operation


in nondominant states - the ways in which economic development programs erode traditional ways of living


the need for culturally-relevant treatment


the ways in which diverse cultures normalize and promote prostitution


stripping, exotic dancing, nude dancing, table dancing, phone sex, trafficking, child and adult pornography, lap dancing, massage brothels, and peep shows as prostitution [/b]

Source: [url="http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/faq/000007.html"]http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/faq/000007.html[/url]

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1762340' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:29 AM']+J.M.J.+
i've seen some tv specials (i think it was MSNBC?) on the sex slave trade in America. i was practically crying by the time this (only an hour long) show was over [/quote]

Yeah, that's how I was too. When they announced the formation of the human trafficking commission here, I was one of the first to apply. When we talk about being pro-life, it can't just be about the unborn. Anything that degrades human life, degrades all of us. A young woman, putting her body up to the highest bidder is every bit as degrading to us all as selling each other, trading in flesh in the dirtiest back alley is.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1762488' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:53 PM']Yeah, that's how I was too. When they announced the formation of the human trafficking commission here, I was one of the first to apply. When we talk about being pro-life, it can't just be about the unborn. Anything that degrades human life, degrades all of us. A young woman, putting her body up to the highest bidder is every bit as degrading to us all as selling each other, trading in flesh in the dirtiest back alley is.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
and yet it disturbs me so to see some women put forth the attitude of being a prostitute is 'liberating', being involved in pornography is 'liberating' it's not.

[havok579257]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1762365' date='Jan 26 2009, 01:00 PM']You are the only one who brought up condemnation, I simply used the correct term, if you want to play with euphemisms, be my guest. There is no difference between a prostitute and a whore.[/quote]


but there is in society. the same where there is a difference between a man who sleeps around and a girl who sleeps around. the man is branded a pimp, but the girl a silly sally.

by definition they are similar, but not by society standards. according to the way we use the terms today, those two words are not the same.

just like back when Jesus lived a donkey was called an a--, nothing was wrong with that word. yet today, it does not just mean donkey.

many words having different means in society and that's what the poster was trying to say.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1762528' date='Jan 26 2009, 04:10 PM']but there is in society. the same where there is a difference between a man who sleeps around and a girl who sleeps around. the man is branded a pimp, but the girl a silly sally.

by definition they are similar, but not by society standards. according to the way we use the terms today, those two words are not the same.

just like back when Jesus lived a donkey was called an a--, nothing was wrong with that word. yet today, it does not just mean donkey.

many words having different means in society and that's what the poster was trying to say.[/quote]


There is no difference between the two words, both refer to paying for sex.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1762629' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:44 PM']There is no difference between the two words, both refer to paying for sex.[/quote]

The difference is that one is a purely factual description, the other is a vulgar term used for centuries as a degrading insult. "Loose woman" and "silly sally" mean the same thing but there is an obvious difference. Edit: As evidenced by the fact that the latter word was censored... -Katie

Edited January 27, 2009 by Tinkerlina