Apotheoun Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 The female saints referenced as "virgins" in the liturgical books of the various Churches made vows (private or public) of virginity, and were consequently enrolled (while living or after their martyrdom) into the Order of Virgins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) If anyone thinks that she's really a virgin, they're not that bright. Basically, she's a prostitute who's found a new way of selling herself. And traditionally, societies that have valued virginity have the greatest respect for women. Edited January 25, 2009 by Saint Therese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='philothea' post='1761224' date='Jan 25 2009, 11:18 AM']If I remember correctly, some female saints are honored as "virgins" whereas men never are? I always wondered about that.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ a book i have talks about that - maybe it is Alice von Hildebrand's "The Privilege of Being a Woman"? not sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1761342' date='Jan 25 2009, 03:58 PM']Well, I mean Christianity as an intelectually viable system of thought more or less died in the 19th century with Darwin's "public murder". At least in the minds (for the most part) of the Western intelligentsia. As Nietzsche said the murder occured long ago but "The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves." .... Natural theology has shifted from a project to show that atheism was simply the childish whims of stubborn individuals trying to resist the will of God to an attempt simply to justify the preheld beliefs of the faithful. This is fine for Christians but I don't think you can then say those who reject it are simply "disregarding the transcendent". The "transcendent" has no longer become a viable option for many people and that is not just a result of their moral corruption but that there is very little reason to look at the "transcendent" as any thing more substantive than a "pious wish".[/quote] I am currently double majoring in Biology and Theology and taking Honors classes and will end up with a philosophy minor and have read much on these ideas. I do not think that Darwin's "public murder," this is the first time I have heard anyone call it that, has in fact killed Christianity. I do not see Evolution as in conflict with theology and Christian understanding since St. Augustine argued that animals change along with their environment to better suit their surrounding long before Darwin ever did. St. Augustine argued that the literal interpretation of Genesis was the wrong road but rather argued for a metaphorical understanding. I think that Nietzsche's understanding is actually closer to why people have rejected Christianity. From what I can understand from having read him, Nietzsche notes that " we have unchained ourselves from our sun" and are floating through space lost. This seems to denote to me that Nietzsche is speaking of the Enlightenment when the thinkers of the time tried to create an ethical system without mentioning God and tried to place human reason and humanity at the center of society, thought, and motivation, thus unchaining ourselves from our sun which kept us focused and ordered our lives ( in a similar way to which gravity from the sun orders our solar system). From this focus on humanity and removal of God from political and sociological thought comes people like Francis Bacon, who while speaking of using Nature as a guide, is actually trying to persuade people that science is the true salvation and that through it we can conquer sickness, pain, and eventually death. He notes that eventually even Nature will become a slave of science. He then attacks the syllogism which had held up the logic of people's transcendental ideas and replaced it with deductive reasoning thus making science the only true mode of understanding and knowledge. Bacon does not try to kill the transcendent but rather ignores it pretty much. To ignore the transcendent, focus on the material, and offer people a bunch of scientific goodies that take pain away will attack the trascendental idea within the hearts of men. Ultimately, one of the great reasons that the transcendent is such a powerful idea is that it gives meaning to pain and suffering. With the exclusion of the traditional understanding of faith as a type of knowledge in favor of only objective scientific knowledge and the all encompassing desire to remove pain from life, the idea of the transcendent has suffered in the hearts of men. People move from fleeting pleasure to fleeting pleasure and focus simply on the material and I think Nietzsche noticed this and that is what he was speaking of in "The Gay Science." The loss of the idea of the transcendent is not caused by moral depravity but by the trying to disregard all faith and even inductive reasoning as just a pious wish, that all universals are just pious wishes and that physical pain is just an inconvenient negative feedback reaction associated with the spinal chord and that the pains of the heart are just hormonal and will go away soon enough. No one looks beyond the physical or for meaning and that is why the idea of the transcendental suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1761388' date='Jan 25 2009, 04:24 PM']I was thinking that too. I wonder how this is legal.[/quote] Prostitution is legal in Nevada. They call their brothels "Ranches." She mentions one of them in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1761390' date='Jan 25 2009, 03:26 PM']The female saints referenced as "virgins" in the liturgical books of the various Churches made vows (private or public) of virginity, and were consequently enrolled (while living or after their martyrdom) into the Order of Virgins.[/quote] Ah, that makes sense. Is there no comparable enrollment for men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Yeah, i heard an interview she did. Basically, she aspires to be in one of these Ranches, and she's contracting herself out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' post='1761415' date='Jan 25 2009, 04:40 PM']I am currently double majoring in Biology and Theology and taking Honors classes and will end up with a philosophy minor and have read much on these ideas. I do not think that Darwin's "public murder," this is the first time I have heard anyone call it that, has in fact killed Christianity.[/quote] No it has not "killed" Christianity nor could it. It has, amongst other factors, led to Christianity being seen by many in the west as no longer seeing Christianity, and religion really, as viable. [quote]I do not see Evolution as in conflict with theology and Christian understanding since St. Augustine argued that animals change along with their environment to better suit their surrounding long before Darwin ever did. St. Augustine argued that the literal interpretation of Genesis was the wrong road but rather argued for a metaphorical understanding.[/quote] The destructive power of Darwinism for western Christianity does not and did not lie so much in the idea of a species evolving or changing, such ideas have been around since the Ionists. What was so destructive was presenting a well supported and viable explanation of the emergence of life without God given aid through the mechanism of natural selection. Theodosius Dobzhansky was a great evolutionary biologist and a devout Orthodox Christian. Yet even he said that in the context of biology, like Laplace, he has "no need of that hypothesis (God)". I'm not saying that Darwinism does necessitate atheism, obviously many brilliant biologists have been Christians, but it has had a corrosive effect on religious faith and does increase the difficulties of an outsider seeing any reason to believe in God. [quote]I think that Nietzsche's understanding is actually closer to why people have rejected Christianity. From what I can understand from having read him, Nietzsche notes that " we have unchained ourselves from our sun" and are floating through space lost. This seems to denote to me that Nietzsche is speaking of the Enlightenment when the thinkers of the time tried to create an ethical system without mentioning God and tried to place human reason and humanity at the center of society, thought, and motivation, thus unchaining ourselves from our sun which kept us focused and ordered our lives ( in a similar way to which gravity from the sun orders our solar system). From this focus on humanity and removal of God from political and sociological thought comes people like Francis Bacon, who while speaking of using Nature as a guide, is actually trying to persuade people that science is the true salvation and that through it we can conquer sickness, pain, and eventually death. He notes that eventually even Nature will become a slave of science. He then attacks the syllogism which had held up the logic of people's transcendental ideas and replaced it with deductive reasoning thus making science the only true mode of understanding and knowledge. Bacon does not try to kill the transcendent but rather ignores it pretty much. To ignore the transcendent, focus on the material, and offer people a bunch of scientific goodies that take pain away will attack the trascendental idea within the hearts of men.[/quote] Sure, his focus in on other atheists who do not understand that the "death of God" does not just mean we no longer honor the Sabbath but will necessitate a radical reinterpretation of the world we live in, a "transvaluation of values". [quote]Ultimately, one of the great reasons that the transcendent is such a powerful idea is that it gives meaning to pain and suffering. With the exclusion of the traditional understanding of faith as a type of knowledge in favor of only objective scientific knowledge and the all encompassing desire to remove pain from life, the idea of the transcendent has suffered in the hearts of men.[/quote] I think you have put the cart before the horse. [quote]People move from fleeting pleasure to fleeting pleasure and focus simply on the material and I think Nietzsche noticed this and that is what he was speaking of in "The Gay Science." The of the idea of the transcendent is not caused by moral depravity but by the trying to disregard all faith and even inductive reasoning as just a pious wish, that all universals are just pious wishes and that physical pain is just an inconvenient negative feedback reaction associated with the spinal chord and that the pains of the heart are just hormonal and will go away soon enough. No one looks beyond the physical or for meaning and that is why the idea of the transcendental suffers.[/quote] But why do people no longer look beyond the physical? I mean is this just some arbitrary decision or does it have something to do with "the heavens getting smaller", with "Technologies of steel now pierce[ing] through the clouds where once believers looked for angels bearing signs from heaven"? My point is not that Christianity is false, but that the rejection of the transcendent is not just the arbitrary decision of individual opting for hedonism over pious faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1761381' date='Jan 25 2009, 04:19 PM']Virgin or not, if you are selling yourself, there isn't any difference between her and the 16 year old standing on the corner across from our church getting in to strange men's cars.[/quote] She is a whore no matter where she sells it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1761469' date='Jan 25 2009, 05:21 PM']She is a whore no matter where she sells it.[/quote] uh oh [size=6]CAT FIGHT!!![/size] [img]http://www.cats-mania.com/albums/cat-fight/catfight-5.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1761469' date='Jan 25 2009, 05:21 PM']She is a whore no matter where she sells it.[/quote] I pray she doesn't do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Nope, simple definition: a woman who engages in sexual intercourse for money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1761475' date='Jan 25 2009, 06:27 PM']Nope, simple definition: a woman who engages in sexual intercourse for money[/quote] I suppose. It still seems very cruel to call a woman by that term though, no matter if her occupation appears to fit the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 What I was wondering was what if she really gets someone to pay the money :greed: for her....uh....yeah....well after the "transaction" what if someone comes out and says she is not a Virgin Regardless, it is interesting (and extremely horrible) to see her only see the money. I mean, if her thesis and idea of virginity is true..........she acts as if it is something to just throw out there....and the question is.....is it? It is interesting to see how she thinks she has elevated herself, where in reality she has done the opposite. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/green+day/track/extraordinary+girl"]Green Day - Extraordinary Girl[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Many things can be blamed on materialism. Basically, the idea of selling your body to regain control of it is flawed, because by doing so, you lose all control. No one thinks that prostitutes have more ownership/control/respect for their bodies than married women or virgins. Rather, they have debased themselves and given that away. If the desire is to control men...sleeping with them is not the way to go about doing that. If you say "no" you have the power; if you get into bed and take his money....sorry, dearie, but he's got the power, and he knows that. I'm not suggesting that prostitutes do (or should) have any respect for their johns. I think the entire concept of prostitution reduces human beings to objects with no self-respect or respect for others. If she [i]wants[/i] to join a brothel, then she's going to be in for a rude awakening on what, precisely, that purity was worth (if she is indeed a virgin). I agree she doesn't sound like one. That chip on the shoulder about men makes it sound very much like she has been a victim in the past. Kinda like how Dumbledore points out to Harry that Voldemort was so busy splitting his soul into different parts that he did not recognize the value of a soul that was whole and intact - ie, Harry's. Why is the power of love always so invisible and absent from these conversations? Edited January 25, 2009 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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