KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 "The bishops, priests and faithful of the Society of St Pius X are not schismatics. It is Archbishop Lefebrve who has undertaken an illicit episcopal consecration and therefore performed a schismatic act. It is for this reason that the Bishops consecrated by him have been suspended and excommunicated. The priests and faithful of the Society have not been excommunicated. They are not heretics." -Cardinal Castrillón Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1760587' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:26 PM']You mean excommunications? because the SSPX is not a schismatic group.[/quote] The word has a non-technical meaning, which was how I was using it. "Split" would have worked too. When I get excited my vocabulary gets wacky. Obviously, technically schismatic groups have no interest in reconciling differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) [center][i]Alas, how sad it is that some are far more ready to judge (and criticize) priests than they are to pray for them.[/i] [url="http://www.ignatius.com/magazines/hprweb/morrow.htm"]The Danger of Criticizing Bishops and Priests[/url] By Thomas G. Morrow[/center] [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760494' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:29 PM']Still don't understand how it is possible to be an excommunicated bishop. In any case, I think that anyone, in any walk of life, who is a Holocaust denier and makes their views publically known, should not be surprised when criticism comes his/her way... -Katie[/quote] [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1760496' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:32 PM']So if one criticizes the individual they are automatically criticizing the office? You can still have respect for the office (i.e. the Presidency) without much appreciating the individual (i.e. the President).[/quote] Edited January 25, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 AMAZING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760613' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:43 PM'][center][i]Alas, how sad it is that some are far more ready to judge (and criticize) priests than they are to pray for them.[/i] [url="http://www.ignatius.com/magazines/hprweb/morrow.htm"]The Danger of Criticizing Bishops and Priests[/url] By Thomas G. Morrow[/center][/quote] I bet you were just looking for an excuse to use the word "alas" today, weren't you? -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Alas, that is a good word. But alas, I can not find where Fr. Morrow got that quote! Edited January 25, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760627' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:55 PM']Alas, that is a good word. But alas, I can not find where Morrow got that quote![/quote] Not sure, I've heard it before. But there were many saints who criticized priests and bishops with regard to their personal behavior. It is sometimes warranted. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Yes, sometimes it is, but the Saints only did so after deep prayer, and very likely much time privately trying to resolve the problem. Fr Morrow goes over that, still there is a great danger when doing so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doe-jo Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='philothea' post='1760601' date='Jan 24 2009, 07:34 PM']The word has a non-technical meaning, which was how I was using it. "Split" would have worked too. [b]When I get excited my vocabulary gets wacky.[/b] Obviously, technically schismatic groups have no interest in reconciling differences.[/quote] Don't worry, Im the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760632' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:59 PM']Yes, sometimes it is, but the Saints only did so after deep prayer, and very likely much time privately trying to resolve the problem. Fr Morrow goes over that, still there is a great danger when doing so...[/quote] Well, there's no way I can privately contact that bishop anyway... and I think there is a possibility of a person who denies the Holocaust leading people astray, so naturally I would criticize that person.-Katie Edited January 25, 2009 by Tinkerlina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760641' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:03 PM']Well, there's no way I can privately contact that bishop anyway...[/quote] Society of Saint Pius X Regina Coeli House 11485 N. Farley Road Platte City, MO 64079 816-753-0073 tel 816-753-3560 fax [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760641' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:03 PM']and I think there is a possibility of a person who denies the Holocaust leading people astray, so naturally I would criticize that person.-Katie[/quote] Still you must be very careful. Also, it is not as if the matter is not being dealt with privately and somewhat publicly (the link to the letter I posted early by Bishop Fellay) by both the Holy See and the other bishops of the SSPX. In the past when Saints would criticize it was often in the cases where no one else criticized the unjust actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Bishop Williamson is of the odd opinion that a few hundred thousand Jews (rather than the generally stated 6 million) died in the Holocaust unjustly, though not in gas chambers but rather as a result of horrid mistreatment in concentration camps. He is no fan of the nazis. Now, he is dead wrong in my opinion; but in the interview he did indicate he did not wish to cause hurt to those whose relatives or they themselves were part of the holocaust; he admits bad things occurred under the Nazis, but for some reason he has found himself holding to the incorrect belief that the holocaust wasn't as big as it actually was; he cited someone who has studied the gas chambers and concluded that it would have been impossible to accomplish systematic gas chambering of so many in them... it's one of those seemingly reasonable "facts" like the laundry list of things that convince people 9/11 was a conspiracy and Bishop Williamson has fallen for it. why? it's not because he wants to see Jews killed and not because he approves of that; I believe his motive is more along the lines of not liking the business of the holocaust, how it fuels so much Jewish lobbyism throughout the world and puts them in a protective bubble that keeps anyone from being able to legitimately criticism anything Jewish without being labelled anti-semetic, being read a history lesson, and being compared to Hitler... that's the perception alot of people who disagree with, for instance, the existence of the Israeli state or this or that position of the ADL.... and that's why, in my judgement of Williamson after actually reading through much of his political/historical/theological beliefs as to why he was susceptible to fall for this belief that the holocaust had a lower number of deaths who were not systematically annihilated through gas chambers but rather killed by being put into horrid conditions in concentration camps. basically, he fell for it because he doesn't like the "Shoah business" or the "Holocaust industry" (terms coined by Norman G. Finkelstein, son of a Holocaust Survivor)... but the brush of "holocaust denyer" is way too broad; yes, he thinks the Nazi genocide was smaller than the accepted number and that it did not use the same means, but he's no neo-nazi out to see more Jews killed or something... contradictory historical opinions abound about tons of things; people have horribly false beliefs about the numbers involved in the Spanish Inquisition, many Turks deny the Armenian genocide, people wear t-shirts with the face of a mass-murderer (Che Guevera) and it's considered cool; it happens, people have many wrong ideas about this or that event in history; chances are you have a false understanding of something that occurred in history yourself and don't even know it (chances are, so do I); but anyone who took the time to listen to Williamson's talk about the gas chambers would hear that he really has great sympathy for those who went through concentration camps themselves or those who have relatives who went through concentration camps and/or died as a result of them... he just has a wrong historical opinion about the numbers and means by which the Nazis persecuted the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm not a big fan of the SSPX, but it is certainly good news that they are moving closer to accepting the authority of their Patriarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doe-jo Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 He's fallible and I don't think this is a matter of Faith and Morals. It's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1760683' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:30 PM']He's fallible and I don't think this is a matter of Faith and Morals. It's history.[/quote] Yes, but I think that denying/minimizing a documented atrocity has moral implications. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now