Dutch Mp Tried For His Views On Islam

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1760408' date='Jan 25 2009, 01:35 AM']And the concept that it is relative to culture is exactly what is wrong with the Islamic and increasingly as well the European countries.[/quote]

I think there's a difference between culture and situation. Would it be ok to stand up in the middle of Mass or Adoration and speak one's mind out loud as to how great the new Argentinian education laws are?

[Hassan]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1760416' date='Jan 24 2009, 07:43 PM']I think there's a difference between culture and situation. Would it be ok to stand up in the middle of Mass or Adoration and speak one's mind out loud as to how great the new Argentinian education laws are?[/quote]

Or the stripping of Heidegger's philosophy post. He was not active in the party but did make speechs making an intelectual case for the Nazi cause. Given the context of post WWII Germany was it warented to strip his teachings rights for, I think, five years, to make sure he would not use his teaching positions to preach Nazi values to his students? I think so. In America there is no rational reason to think that Nazism will ever gain a firm hold so we are generally more tolerant of individual advocating it.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1760116' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:11 AM']I've seen Fitna, and it does portray Islam in a less-then-flattering-light[/quote]

No, Islam portrays ITSELF in a less than flattering light. All the MP did was present Koranic texts side-by-side with events around the world being perpetrated by Muslims in the name of those very same texts.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1761303' date='Jan 25 2009, 02:18 PM']No, Islam portrays ITSELF in a less than flattering light. All the MP did was present Koranic texts side-by-side with events around the world being perpetrated by Muslims in the name of those very same texts.[/quote]

You probably didn't notice the 'Sarcasm Alert' at the bottom of my post.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1761303' date='Jan 25 2009, 03:18 PM']No, Islam portrays ITSELF in a less than flattering light. All the MP did was present Koranic texts side-by-side with events around the world being perpetrated by Muslims in the name of those very same texts.[/quote]

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/yitz2k/wildersposter2.gif[/img]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1761308' date='Jan 25 2009, 03:25 PM']You probably didn't notice the 'Sarcasm Alert' at the bottom of my post.[/quote]


You mean your sinister attempt to disguise your Muslim apolegitics through psuedo sarcasm?

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1760419' date='Jan 24 2009, 07:46 PM']Given the context of post WWII Germany was it warented to strip his teachings rights for, I think, five years, to make sure he would not use his teaching positions to preach Nazi values to his students? I think so. In America there is no rational reason to think that Nazism will ever gain a firm hold so we are generally more tolerant of individual advocating it.[/quote]

The reason people hold firm to the idea of tolerance of individuals is not due to a lack of fear, which just seems animalistic and reductionist, that certain ideas won't take hold, but rather because the american people understand that all ideas have consequences that should be explored and talked about openly, especially the idea that certain ideas and opinions should not be expressed.

Who has the authority to say when it is ok to speak one's opinions and when it is not alright to speak certain opinions, a mob? an outside military power? Or, is there an objective standard such that ideas always should be expressed because if they are dangerous they should be talked about so that their flaws may be pointed out and no longer hold any influence? To say certain ideas should not be spoken of seems to add to the fear and power surrounding them not to mention there seems to be no objective standards by which to regulate the censurship of ideas other than those in power wish that there are such things that should not be spoken of? How do we ensure free, rational, mature, open, frank discussion in a society and in a ruling body that is concerned with the best course of action if certain people are not allowed to speak their minds and add to the conversation no matter how "upsetting" certain ideas may be?

I think the answer is obvious, all [i]ideas[/i] should be allowed to be voiced because it seems that either all manner of opinion is allowed or there is no reason that any, save that of the organization with the most power, should or would be allowed.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

[Winchester]

There are only two things I hate; those who are intolerant of other people's cultures. And the Dutch.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Nice Edited January 26, 2009 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam

[Hassan]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' post='1762438' date='Jan 26 2009, 03:20 PM']The reason people hold firm to the idea of tolerance of individuals is not due to a lack of fear, which just seems animalistic and reductionist, that certain ideas won't take hold, but rather because the american people understand that all ideas have consequences that should be explored and talked about openly, especially the idea that certain ideas and opinions should not be expressed.[/quote]

I don't quite follow you here

[quote]Who has the authority to say when it is ok to speak one's opinions and when it is not alright to speak certain opinions, a mob? an outside military power? Or, is there an objective standard such that ideas always should be expressed because if they are dangerous they should be talked about so that their flaws may be pointed out and no longer hold any influence? To say certain ideas should not be spoken of seems to add to the fear and power surrounding them not to mention there seems to be no objective standards by which to regulate the censurship of ideas other than those in power wish that there are such things that should not be spoken of?[/quote]

In a republican government the populace at large should set the bounds of free speech. Perhaps not speaking certain ideas does add to their mystery, however a lack of prohibition did not protect six million Jews particularly well either.

[quote]How do we ensure free, rational, mature, open, frank discussion in a society and in a ruling body that is concerned with the best course of action if certain people are not allowed to speak their minds and add to the conversation no matter how "upsetting" certain ideas may be?[/quote]

I don't understand this. We've doing it right now. Even when we lack formal laws there are implicit social mores that no politician dare cross.

[quote]I think the answer is obvious, all [i]ideas[/i] should be allowed to be voiced because it seems that either all manner of opinion is allowed or there is no reason that any, save that of the organization with the most power, should or would be allowed. [/quote]


Well, for three hundred years we've been able to navigate those admittedly dangerous waters pretty well.

[sweens8403]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1760071' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:29 AM']It doesn't matter. The whole world is quivering in fear at the very thought--let alone actions--of offending Muslims.[/quote]

I don't understand why people worldwide pander to them so much. Muslims accuse Americans of imposing western life on them in Iraq, but then at the same time they are imposing themselves on everybody else.

Dearborn MI, one of the towns in the Detroit area, has the muslim call to prayer 5 times a day played over loudspeakers. They also refuse to teach the english language in their schools there saying it's "offensive" to them. This childish attitude is getting wearisome.

[Winchester]

[quote name='sweens8403' post='1763503' date='Jan 27 2009, 01:46 PM']I don't understand why people worldwide pander to them so much. Muslims accuse Americans of imposing western life on them in Iraq, but then at the same time they are imposing themselves on everybody else.

Dearborn MI, one of the towns in the Detroit area, has the muslim call to prayer 5 times a day played over loudspeakers. They also refuse to teach the english language in their schools there saying it's "offensive" to them. This childish attitude is getting wearisome.[/quote]
Well, some are. But I understand it, perfectly. They believe they are right. Every large belief group, religious or otherswise, tries to impose its belies upon everyone else.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1763853' date='Jan 27 2009, 04:53 PM']Well, some are. But I understand it, perfectly. They believe they are right. Every large belief group, religious or otherswise, tries to impose its belies upon everyone else.[/quote]
Except we're right and they aren't.

[Winchester]

I know from you that we means Catholics, so I agree. In the end, there will be war. Good people on both sides will die.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1763861' date='Jan 27 2009, 07:01 PM']I know from you that we means Catholics, so I agree. In the end, there will be war. Good people on both sides will die.[/quote]


indeed. My presence here shows it has already begun