dairygirl4u2c Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) [url="http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=7452"]http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=7452[/url] [quote]Medjugorje "work of the devil": Ex Vatican exorcist Published: June 03, 2008 Former Vatican exorcist Bishop Andrea Gemma has denounced alleged visions of Our Lady in the Bosnian town of Medjugorje as the "work of the devil" and a "diabolical deceit". The UK Daily Mail reports that the Vatican has rejected claims made by the six Bosnian 'seers' that they have seen the Virgin Mary more than 40,000 times over the past 27 years Bishop Andrea Gemma, 77, once the Vatican's top exorcist, told a magazine in Italy: "In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: Pilgrimages, lodging houses, sale of trinkets. "This whole sham is the work of the Devil. It is a scandal." He predicted that the Vatican would soon crack down on the group. The Medjugorje phenomenon began on June 25, 1981, when six children told a priest they had seen the Virgin on a hillside near their town. Some of the children also claim to have received ten secrets from Our Lady. A church investigation dismissed the vision, and the Vatican banned pilgrimages to the site in 1985. But many Catholics ignored the ban. Today, the seers own smart houses with security gates and tennis courts and expensive cars. One is married to a former US beauty queen.[/quote] the link has glowing statute pic. i've seen weird stuff on video, that's probably not a fake video. there's tons of people with eye witness testimony. the fruits are mixed, good and bad. i do know a lot of good, but a lot of bad, too. some might say God can use bad things, for good. so, if it's such a mixed bag, perhaps it's bad, as it's all be good fruit, if a heavenly apparition. then, a long apparition like this is bound to draw controversial things regarding it from time to time, even if heavenly. [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS242US242&q=medjugorje+satan"]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&saf...edjugorje+satan[/url] Edited January 16, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It is a good example of why we should wait for the church to document and authenticate these kinds of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 [url="http://www.medjugorje.org/framorth1.htm"]http://www.medjugorje.org/framorth1.htm[/url] on the other hand, another vatican exorcist, who at least speaks as if it might be true. the wya you talks, you might think he does believe in it, or tends to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 i do know people personally who might illustrate that it's all a fraud, but even them, it's controversial what i just said. it'd be interesting to hear from more who's been there, or know of things regarding the place, that they think it's a fraud. most i know of in that regard, all say great things about it. i wonder who much they really look into it tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Why would they call it a work of the Devil? Is this apparition doing any harm or leading anyone astray? hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1753163' date='Jan 16 2009, 06:00 PM']Why would they call it a work of the Devil? Is this apparition doing any harm or leading anyone astray? hmm...[/quote] Not a very clear-cut answer, I'd expect. I'm sure all apparitions could lead people astray through some kind of misplaced devotion... You know what I mean, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I've always felt torn on Medjugorje. There have been a lot of conversions. And then...well, there's the rest of the stuff (primarily revolving around the lifestyle of the seers) that does not fit in with any other approved apparition in Church history. I do recommend the book [i]Miracle Detective[/i], by Randal Sullivan, for anyone interested in learning about the apparitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I very much look at the fruits. Just comparing the Fatima seers with the Medjugorje ones says a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If you claim to be holding conversations with the Virgin Mary, but really aren't - that would be a rather disgraceful sham. I know the Vatican will never approve it until after the visions cease. As long as they are ongoing, all it is going to get is censure. The message - pray, fast and sacrifice - is good. So, that part of it is fine. Whether or not the apparitions are real is more problematic - and less important, anyway. I think a lot of good has come out of it, and many people who have gone there on pilgrimage report a great peace from that place, and a deep faith held by the people there. Some rather negative things have come out of it too, of course - Fr. Ken Roberts, one of the American priests who took youth there on pilgrimages throughout the '80s and '90s, has been accused of serious enough misbehavior that he is no longer allowed to present himself as a priest in public. On one of his pilgrimages there, he was involved in a minor exorcism - I don't know what the teens were messing around with, but he certainly thought it was demonic. Priests who were at the parish church in Medjugorje have also been condemned by the church. Basically, if it is real, it is clear that Satan is attacking people involved...and it if isn't real, well...then it isn't real. Since believing in visions is such an optional thing, I try not to worry too much about that. But faith is in constant need of renewal, we are in constant need of repentence - and Medjugorje is a constant reminder of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1753116' date='Jan 16 2009, 06:26 PM']i've seen weird stuff on video, that's probably not a fake video.[/quote] Can you post? I've seen stuff on video (i.e. youtube) that most definitely is fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1753128' date='Jan 16 2009, 07:36 PM']It is a good example of why we should wait for the church to document and authenticate these kinds of things.[/quote] I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='MithLuin' post='1753475' date='Jan 16 2009, 10:20 PM']Some rather negative things have come out of it too, of course - Fr. Ken Roberts, one of the American priests who took youth there on pilgrimages throughout the '80s and '90s, has been accused of serious enough misbehavior that he is no longer allowed to present himself as a priest in public. On one of his pilgrimages there, he was involved in a minor exorcism - I don't know what the teens were messing around with, but he certainly thought it was demonic. Priests who were at the parish church in Medjugorje have also been condemned by the church. Basically, if it is real, it is clear that Satan is attacking people involved...and it if isn't real, well...then it isn't real. Since believing in visions is such an optional thing, I try not to worry too much about that. But faith is in constant need of renewal, we are in constant need of repentence - and Medjugorje is a constant reminder of those things.[/quote] What do you mean by 'minor exorcism'? I'm assuming you aren't referring to baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 No. I mean that it was a weird situation (ie, the room got [i]really[/i] cold) and a kid was having a fit of some sort. Throwing holy water on the kid solved the problem. After that, this particular bunch of teenagers took the saying-the-rosary-and-going-to-mass part of the pilgrimage a lot more seriously. I didn't want to call it a real exorcism, though, because it was rather impromptu. He related this event at a talk I heard from him in 1992. One of the girls who had been on the pilgrimage and witnessed this also spoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 [quote name='MithLuin' post='1753510' date='Jan 16 2009, 10:51 PM']No. I mean that it was a weird situation (ie, the room got [i]really[/i] cold) and a kid was having a fit of some sort. Throwing holy water on the kid solved the problem. After that, this particular bunch of teenagers took the saying-the-rosary-and-going-to-mass part of the pilgrimage a lot more seriously. I didn't want to call it a real exorcism, though, because it was rather impromptu. He related this event at a talk I heard from him in 1992. One of the girls who had been on the pilgrimage and witnessed this also spoke.[/quote] Ok, I understand. Unfortunately I act like a know-it-all when it comes to exorcisms due to having read Fr. Amorth's two books. So saying minor exorcism implies baptism to me, and major exorcism is what we tend to think of. Stuff in between wouldn't count. Strictly, of course. ...and I get mad when people are all pedantic with me... I'm terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ah, I have only read one of his books, so I bow to your superior knowledge But I thought blessing yourself with holy water is also a minor exorcism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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