Going To A Non-denominational Church

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1751031' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:34 AM']Usually, non-denominational liturgy is very unstructured (at least in comparison). So, probably no vestments, communion might not be every week, a big emphasis on music-as-worship, and preaching based on Bible passages, yes, but not on the liturgical cycle that we have. But since each nondenominational church is unique, maybe none of my guesses will be correct! For your brother's sake, try to find the positive, and not be too critical of what you don't like.[/quote]

You didn't mention the biggest difference: preaching Virtually all non-demonational churches, like Baptist, Christian, and Reformed churches, place a high value on practical, expository preaching. I suppose, in theory, our deacons and priests also deliver expository homilies because the word "expository" means the sermon is based on a particular passage of Scripture, but the vast majority of homilies I hear are more like reflections that are loosely based on the Scriptures and are rarely practical.

While I hear our seminaries are doing a better job with training in homiletics, I don't think it's a bad idea for seminarians, deacons, and priests to listen to good Protestant preaching and take notes from the things they do well. Not only that, but in hearing the occasional argument in favor of sola fide or against a tenet of Catholicism, they would know what us Catholic laypeople need to hear to challenge those arguments.


[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1751363' date='Jan 14 2009, 05:15 PM']That's what phatmass has done for me. When I came here I was satisfied with just believing in God and Jesus. I struggled with the emphasis being set on the cathoic church being the church with the complete truth. I found it much easier to interpit scripture and cling to being saved by faith. It is really easy to turn on tbn laying on your couch and feel holy and with no need to venture out in the crazy world.[/quote]

That's a great testimony to hear! Sometimes it feels like most people have their mind made up when they show up here, but good to know some good fruit is coming forth.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1751042' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:07 AM']From the Phorum Guidelines:



Be careful how far you go with that. I know we technically refer to them as ecclesial communities, not churches, in Church documents. But to pretend that our connection and relationship with other Christians is no different from our relationship with pagans is absurd. The fact of the matter is that we have to specify that they are not in [i]full[/i] communion with us, because there is a great deal of communion - a common baptism, a common faith in Jesus, the same Bible, etc.

The one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church is a mystical body. I would not be so quick to assume that those who attend other churches are not part of it. Those who knowingly and willingly reject the Catholic faith and put themselves outside of it - sure. But the Church does not consider people who unwittingly attend schismatic churches to be themselves schismatic. Ponder on that for a bit.[/quote]
I'm fairly certain that that's almost exactly what he said.

[Guest nvzbl]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1751230' date='Jan 14 2009, 02:04 PM']So, does this mean that it doesn't matter if they are Christian? Judaism, Hinduism, Islam.. all just as good as being Christian?

If this is not what you are saying, then you missed my point.

Just like Christianity has Jesus, and the other religions do not, Catholicism has the Eucharist, which the other Christian denominations do not.

You see?

Christianity contains more truth than non-Christian religions because they have JESUS.
Catholicism contains more truth than other Christian religions because we have the EUCHARIST.

We should be striving to bring everyone into the FULLNESS of truth, and not be satisfied with people just saying that they believe in a God.[/quote]


Nope. i still disagree with you.
first of all, i dont choose to have a relationship with God bcuz i hav to or i will go to hell. i choose to hav a relatioship with God bcuz i [i]choose to.[/i]
no one makes me. no one forces me. i choose to bcuz i [i]want to [/i]not bcuz i [b]have to[/b].


and i dont believe Catholic is the only one true church. i am the body. i am the church. i could go to heaven without ever eating the eucharist. Jesus never said, "Catholic" never said "Catholicism" He spoke in parables. He offered ALL WAYS to in which His words could be used to glorify God. There is a fullness of truth and it IS the Catholic Church. But it is MORE THAN JUST THAT. its ALL THINGS. it my purpose on this earth. thus the revelations!

what was the mystery of the seven stars that He held in His hand. [i]IT[/i] represented all things. what the spirit spoke to The Churches. ALL THINGS. GOD wanted us to know ALL THINGS. when his will is fulfilled we will know no church worshiped Christ in vain. we will know that we can all stand together and accept God and His Kingdom He created for US. what is it? EVERYTHING you can possibly imagine....and that BROTHER dust....i'll never forsake.

[Guest nvzbl]

# Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Genesis 28:14
Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
# Genesis 41:40
You shall be in charge of my palace, and all my people are to submit to your orders. Only with respect to the throne will I be greater than you."
Exodus 34:10
Then the LORD said: "I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you.
Leviticus 10:3
Moses then said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke of when he said: " 'Among those who approach me I will show myself holy; in the sight of all the people I will be honored.' " Aaron remained silent.
Numbers 11:12
Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth? Why do you tell me to carry them in my arms, as a nurse carries an infant, to the land you promised on oath to their forefathers?
Numbers 11:29
But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"
Deuteronomy 4:6
Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people."
Deuteronomy 7:6
For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.
# Deuteronomy 7:7
The LORD did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples.
Deuteronomy 7:19
You saw with your own eyes the great trials, the miraculous signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm, with which the LORD your God brought you out. The LORD your God will do the same to all the peoples you now fear.
Deuteronomy 17:13
All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.
Deuteronomy 26:18
And the LORD has declared this day that you are his people, his treasured possession as he promised, and that you are to keep all his commands.
Deuteronomy 26:19
He has declared that he will set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations he has made and that you will be a people holy to the LORD your God, as he promised.
Deuteronomy 27:15
"Cursed is the man who carves an image or casts an idol—a thing detestable to the LORD, the work of the craftsman's hands—and sets it up in secret." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:16
"Cursed is the man who dishonors his father or his mother." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:17
"Cursed is the man who moves his neighbor's boundary stone." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:18
"Cursed is the man who leads the blind astray on the road." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:19
"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:20
"Cursed is the man who sleeps with his father's wife, for he dishonors his father's bed." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:21
"Cursed is the man who has sexual relations with any animal." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:22
"Cursed is the man who sleeps with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:23
"Cursed is the man who sleeps with his mother-in-law." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:24
"Cursed is the man who kills his neighbor secretly." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:25
"Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 27:26
"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
Deuteronomy 28:10
Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you.
Deuteronomy 31:12
Assemble the people—men, women and children, and the aliens living in your towns—so they can listen and learn to fear the LORD your God and follow carefully all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 32:8
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:9
For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance.
# Deuteronomy 32:44
Moses came with Joshua son of Nun and spoke all the words of this song in the hearing of the people.
Deuteronomy 33:3
Surely it is you who love the people; all the holy ones are in your hand. At your feet they all bow down, and from you receive instruction,
Joshua 4:24
He did this so that all the peoples of the earth might know that the hand of the LORD is powerful and so that you might always fear the LORD your God.
Joshua 24:27
"See!" he said to all the people. "This stone will be a witness against us. It has heard all the words the LORD has said to us. It will be a witness against you if you are untrue to your God."
# Judges 2:4
When the angel of the LORD had spoken these things to all the Israelites, the people wept aloud,
Judges 20:2
The leaders of all the people of the tribes of Israel took their places in the assembly of the people of God, four hundred thousand soldiers armed with swords.
Judges 20:8
All the people rose as one man, saying, "None of us will go home. No, not one of us will return to his house.
1 Samuel 2:23
So he said to them, "Why do you do such things? I hear from all the people about these wicked deeds of yours.
1 Samuel 8:7
And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.
1 Samuel 8:21
When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD.
# 1 Samuel 10:24
Samuel said to all the people, "Do you see the man the LORD has chosen? There is no one like him among all the people." Then the people shouted, "Long live the king!"

[Guest nvzbl]

Revelations:
9And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth."

11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they sang:
"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"

13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1751526' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:52 PM']i could go to heaven without ever eating the eucharist.[/quote]

That's true. But Jesus also says:

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53

[Guest nvzbl]

Revelations:
9And they sang a new song:
"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth."

11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they sang:
"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"

13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.


--------------------



9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb." 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
"Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!"

13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"

14I answered, "Sir, you know."

And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore,
"they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
16Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them,
nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Edited January 15, 2009 by nvzbl

[Guest nvzbl]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1751532' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:04 PM']That's true. But Jesus also says:

Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53[/quote]


communion??

[Guest nvzbl]

Catholicism is not the only true church.
Ill sacrifice my life and die on that statement.

[Giolla]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1751536' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:09 PM']Catholicism is not the only true church.
Ill sacrifice my life and die on that statement.[/quote]

If the Catholic Church is not the true church what is. Its the first church and the only that is %100 scripture based. What are the other "true churches"? First off you say all of them its not true, the Mormon and Jehovah Witnesses and other denominations border on heresy.

[Giolla]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1751535' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:08 PM']communion??[/quote]

Yes she is referring to communion.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote]32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life. He that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.

John 6:32-35

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.

John 6:51-59[/quote]

This is not about "communion". This is about the [b]Eucharist.[/b] There is a distinct difference between the two.

[Guest]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1751536' date='Jan 14 2009, 10:09 PM']Catholicism is not the only true church.
Ill sacrifice my life and die on that statement.[/quote]

Ya it is. Other churches from other denominations and non denominational ones are still part of the catholic church. I would assume they are until they denounce the catholic church and her majistey. Once you know the catholic church though is where you are called to recieve the eucharist you either gotta accept it or deny it. Alot of christians in other churches can claim ignorance. God knows their heart.

You quote alot of revelations but dont forget the false church is going to come. Its going to preach another Jesus. Paul talks about it and calls the leaders of it super apostles and refers to it as the final conflict. They preach the gospel for a charge. He calls them ministers of satan becasue satan appears to be an angel of light. So I think a chruch is cool as long as it submits to the catholic church. But more and more churches are attacking the catholic church. And remember blasphemy of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. (attributing to satan what is of the holy spirit)

Edited January 15, 2009 by Guest

[Guest nvzbl]

[quote name='Giolla' post='1751545' date='Jan 14 2009, 09:18 PM']If the Catholic Church is not the true church what is. Its the first church and the only that is %100 scripture based. What are the other "true churches"? First off you say all of them its not true, the Mormon and Jehovah Witnesses and other denominations border on heresy.[/quote]



i never said the Catholic church was not the true church.

Edited January 15, 2009 by nvzbl

[Guest nvzbl]

rgggggggggggggggh