Internet Pirating, Intellectual Property, And Restitution

[Nihil Obstat]

Part of the distinction is between copying and sharing.
When you share, there's still only one item. Either you have it or your friend has it, but the only item that exists is the one that is paid for.
When the item is copied, then 'shared' (given away or sold) then you're taking something that was sold to you by the owner, then (as is the case with digital music) taking another one, in a way. It's not stealing in the literal sense that they have less, but it's stealing in the sense of its moral implications on you as a person. You have, or have taken something that you didn't pay for. Regardless of whether or not the artist 'loses' anything, you have something that you shouldn't.

[Mr.Cat]

Casual question, [i]how is [u][url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pirating+"]pirating[/url][/u] and [u][url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/counterfeiting+"]counterfeiting[/url][/u] related[/i]? In the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States"]United States of America[/url] our [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money"]money[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency"]system[/url] is regulated by our Federal Government ([i]somehow/someway[/i]), which is a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency"]fait system[/url], surely there may be some parallel, [i]but what is that parallel[/i]?

Hopefully keeping the whole thread continuance intact, with the context, would it be safe to [b]assume[/b] that there is a distinction how physical property and intellectual property are handled, in the scope of private and nonprofit use?

Edited January 13, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1749758' date='Jan 12 2009, 08:12 PM']Casual question, how is pirating and counterfeiting related? In the United States of America our money system is regulated by our Federal Government (somehow/someway), which is a fait system, surely there may be some parallel, but what is that parallel?

Hopefully keeping the whole thread continuance intact, with the context, would it be safe to assume that there is a distinction how physical property and intellectual property are handled, in the scope of private and nonprofit use?[/quote]

Copying is the how pirating or copying music and 'counterfeiting' or copying digital money would be related.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1749761' date='Jan 12 2009, 07:22 PM']Copying is the how pirating or copying music and 'counterfeiting' or copying digital money would be related.[/quote] Are you suggesting that internet pirating is in fact counterfeiting? If so, I am curious to see this connected ([i]the parallel[/i]), in a little more detail.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[KnightofChrist]

In relation to the definition of the type of pirating we are talking about I do think it does parallel with counterfeiting not 'in fact' the same but very similar.

[url="http://www.answers.com/pirating"]pirating[/url] "One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization."

[url="http://www.answers.com/counterfeiting"]counterfeiting[/url] To make fraudulent copies of something valuable.

Both make copies of something of value without permission or authorization of the owner of the IP.

If it is ok to mass duplicate digital music and 'share' those copies with million of people, can someone also mass duplicate digital US dollars, and 'share those copies with millions of people?

Edited January 13, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[mortify]

If someone purchases a book, makes a photocopy of it and gives it to me, have I stolen the book?

Edited January 13, 2009 by mortify

[rkwright]

[quote name='mortify' post='1749809' date='Jan 12 2009, 08:45 PM']If someone purchases a book, makes a photocopy of it and gives it to me, have I stolen the book? Many would say no. Is there some theoretical loss of capital to the publisher? Sure, but who cares?[/quote]

Well actually I would say Yes. If copying music is stealing (which I agree it is) then books certainly are also. Its the same IP just in a different form.

IP covers anything that can be copyrighted, trademarked, or patented.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='mortify' post='1749809' date='Jan 12 2009, 06:45 PM']If someone purchases a book, makes a photocopy of it and gives it to me, have I stolen the book? Many would say no. Is there some theoretical loss of capital to the publisher? Sure, but who cares?[/quote]

Who cares? How about the people who's livelyhoods depend on sales of their intellectual property?


Would you go into a store and steal a CD?

[rkwright]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1749813' date='Jan 12 2009, 08:50 PM']Who cares? How about the people who's livelyhoods depend on sales of their intellectual property?


Would you go into a store and steal a CD?[/quote]

Replace CD with book. Who would go into Barnes and Noble and not pay for their book. No one I hope.

[Dust's Sister]

Then the question becomes; The person who actually shares this music (Who isn't the owner).... and if you are the one getting the shared music for free, and You were the one who was offered it, are you sinning? Venial sin? or mortal sin? (When you know it is stealing, because you know that's not the actual owner of the song)

Then the question becomes...

If the actual owner of the song, shares this music for free (undownloadable) (word I made up), just via(internet web browsing) that you can hear this music...... Is this a mortal or venial sin? When you have the intentions of never buying it?

[CatherineM]

Every year I get a royalty check from Public Lending Rights to reimburse me for those who check the book out rather than buy it, and CanCopy for those who photocopy things out of it.

[Dust's Sister]

Here's another one for you, How about buying used cd's? I don't know if buying used cd's like lets say from Half Price books --- Do the artists get credit there still for another sale?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Dust's Sister' post='1749819' date='Jan 12 2009, 07:55 PM']Here's another one for you, How about buying used cd's? I don't know if buying used cd's like lets say from Half Price books --- Do the artists get credit there still for another sale?[/quote]

I vaguely remember many years ago that Garth Brooks led some kind of fuss about buying used CD's because they didn't get any licensing from them. Can't remember how that came out.

[mortify]

I wouldn't steal a CD from a store, however if they offered it to me for free I might accept it. Would that be stealing music?

Edited January 13, 2009 by mortify

[dairygirl4u2c]

if you would buy the song if there were no chance you could download it, then it'd be stealing to download it without paying.
if you wouldn't buy it, then it's not stealing. in my opinion.
the person making the song isn't being affected, so there's really no harm.
this involves a great deal of self-honesty though. it's a moral battle in itself, can make you grow through the process of self evaluation.

"It really is not a complex problem: either data-sharing is stealing or it isn't. I say it isn't. If I was somehow persuaded that it is, then I would compare it to the variations of theft that moral theologians regard as venial. "

besides not liking it when folks talk in these sorts of words (most things are not simple, andor usually when they say this, it's not true), i think you opened a can of worms by your answer.
first, you eventually did answer the question the same way i did above, but not in the post where you posted this. the only thing you did post was something like "it's not stealing cause it's not, cause i'm just copying something, not taking it", or something to that effect. things that could have lots of holes put into it.
second, most people haven't gotten to the point of realizing what i stated at the onset of this post and you later stated, and esepcially given that you didn't even address the issues very well at first, you're just alienating people.

Edited January 13, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c