What Are Bad Reasons To Join An Order

[Saint Therese]

I think the Lord could use an imperfect motive to achieve his will.

[MithLuin]

I was referring to an initial motivation, not necessarily to someone who actually went through with joining an order. So, yes, the discernment process should clarify for people their motivations before they seek entrance.

But as for that not happening any more....that would be like saying no one gets married to get out of their parents' house any more. Sure, there are other avenues of escape open, but that doesn't mean no one does this.

I do know of a nun who entered her community to escape some of the hardships of WWII Poland. I do not know all the details, but certainly she didn't set out to be a 'bride of Christ' or anything romantic...it was about practicality for her. She is still with her order today, so it all worked out in the end. I have to think she grew into her vocation in time. When people point to the booming vocations in the Third World and contrast that with the current situation in the US, it is only fair to consider that in impoverished nations, religious orders are a source of wealth, a ticket to education and a better life, etc. I'm not saying that's the [i]only[/i] reason people join (or try to join), but that it could be a factor.

[kavalamyself]

I think if you are escaping something that you can't handle...like an abusive relationship, terrible parents, a divorce, a death or something else. I think though if you are trying to join a place due to any of these reasons you will quickly be discovered and you will probably be asked to go into therapy or you will leave and have therapy after you are out. Like they say in AA, "Go ahead and move. The problems will move with you."

[Lilllabettt]

I have been thinking a lot about this over the past year. What were my motives. It's true I come from a pretty crummy home life. Maybe I was running from that? I don't know. By the time I entered the convent, I'd already mostly escaped that undertow.

I don't think I discerned very well. I mean, I did not agonize a lot, asking "what do you want Lord," etc. I explored the option, felt at peace with it, and took that as my sign.

I think my main motive was that I knew I would be happy in religious life. And I was. But perhaps that is not a good enough reason.

Because there are a lot of nice things about religious life. You never have to go job hunting again or worry about hair or what to wear. You live surrounded by people striving to love God and neighbor. Prayer, Mass, spiritual things .. the rest of the day revolves around that instead of them being squished in whenever possible.

I did not view not being able to pick what I eat, or being corrected, or having to follow a schedule or not being able to travel or have kids as huge sacrifices, not compared to the joyfulness of religious life.

I don't know. It's confusing. Some people say that is how God works, through attraction. I don't now how I could try again, because I'd be afraid of doing it wrong. Better not at all then wrong, right? I mean, who wants to force themselves on Jesus, you know?

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='kavalamyself' post='1791961' date='Feb 26 2009, 02:09 PM']I think if you are escaping something that you can't handle...like an abusive relationship, terrible parents, a divorce, a death or something else. I think though if you are trying to join a place due to any of these reasons you will quickly be discovered and you will probably be asked to go into therapy or you will leave and have therapy after you are out. Like they say in AA, "Go ahead and move. The problems will move with you."[/quote]

Yeah, my future Superior (God-willing) asked me why I was on anti-depressants for a while. She asked if I was from a broken home or if I was abused. Not because she would completely bar someone like that from entering religious life, but she needed to know that I wasn't running away from something. It's NEVER a good idea to go to a convent or monastery to run away. You most likely end up facing the problem even more there than on the outside.

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1792121' date='Feb 26 2009, 10:32 PM']I don't now how I could try again, because I'd be afraid of doing it wrong. Better not at all then wrong, right? I mean, who wants to force themselves on Jesus, you know?[/quote]

"Better not at all than wrong, right?"

Oh, Lillabette, I do think you've got that wrong. Our imperfect efforts are so much better, so much more useful to the Lord than our doing nothing for fear of not getting it down perfectly. God can use our imperfect efforts, but if we do nothing, we give Him nothing to work with and do not allow Him to work through us.

Remember what Chesterton said, "anything worth doing, is worth doing badly."

Think of all the masses you've gone to where the priest seems like he is a little bored and phoning it in. His imperfection does not in any way invalidate the mass. If he were to say, "you know, I'm not going to do a perfect and perfectly reverent mass today," that would be much, much worse than his faulty, entirely human effort.

Or think of all the times you've prayed the rosary and realized that halfway through you were thinking of something completely different and not really attending to the mysteries. Better not to pray at all? Of course not. All prayer is useful and good, even our human and faulty efforts.

God made us human and faulty. He can deal with it and use us, anyway, for His glory!

As far as forcing oneself on Jesus - we none of us can do that. All we can do is open the door and he stands ready to enter. We think we are pursuing him, but in reality, he is pursuing us. Sometimes he is saying, "stand still, so I can reach you...be quiet so I can teach you," but we're too busy listening to all the distracting "old tapes" playing in our heads.

I hear such pain in what you have written. I will keep you in my prayers and I truly hope that you at least open yourself to the idea of "trying again" the religious life, with careful, prayerful discernment - but discernment does not say "but you don't really want me..." because that noise will get in the way of what He is trying to say to you.

Trust. We must all trust - in all of our lives, no matter what our vocations are, whether we are mothers, sisters, brothers, fathers, priests or single people. We must TRUST that if we stand fully before the Lord - aware that we are not "useless" to him, because he LOVED us into Creation to begin with, and each of us for a purpose - and that if we ASK him, flat out, to tell us WHAT HE WANTS US TO DO, He WILL tell us.

He WILL tell you.

I have found this to be true in my life. When I have said, "Lord, please show me, tell me what it is you want me to do next," he has ALWAYS come through very clearly. That does not mean it has always been easy. Very often it has meant moving out of my own comfort zone, pushing myself to do what I would rather not do in a million years, exposing myself to ridicule and making myself vulnerable, both to Him and to others. But with TRUST in Him...these things have always worked out.

Trust is the hardest thing; it really is. We all want to think we're in control of everything, and we're not. But try to stand before the Lord, and if it helps, imagine yourself poor and vulnerable before him - without even decent clothing, just a sheet around you - and say, "Here I am, Lord; I love you, I trust you. Please help me to trust you even more, as you tell me Lord, what it is you want me to do..."

Then really work to Trust.

The illustration of The Divine Mercy has at the caption, "Jesus, I TRUST in you."

Perhaps when we are having difficulty trusting that actually does want us, that He actually has a plan for us, that we really do fit in - we should repeat that phrase, over and over: Jesus, I TRUST in you.

"I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. "Plans of fullness, not of harm; to give you a future, and a hope. When you call me, when you go to pray to me, I will listen to you.
When you look for me, you will find me. Yes, when you seek me with all your heart, you will find me with you, says the LORD, and [i]I will change your lot[/i]; I will gather you together from all the nations and all the places to which I have banished you, says the LORD, and bring you back to the place from which I have exiled you."
-- Jeremiah 29:11-13

God does not make empty promises. We're even allowed to remind Him of them and say, "hey, Lord, you promised this to me...let's have it!"

Trust. Believe. He will not abandon you. He will show you his face, and tell you what he wants you to do.

I will keep you especially in my prayers, particularly when I pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

In Christ,
Dame Agnes

[Lilllabettt]

Hey DA thnx for the prayers and kind words. Much appreciated. I am not in horrible unending agony, but I don't blame you if you get that impression, since most of my posts on VS seem to be downers. One thing I have been cured of is wanting to do my own will if it is in contradiction to Gods .. not even so much out of love for God, but because it's been made plain that His way is the easy way.

I've been thinking about it more ... and it is a really complex problem. On the one hand, doing the will of God is supposed to make us happy. But if doing something makes us happy, how do we figure out if we're doing it for the natural motive of wanting to be happy versus the supernatural motive of wanting to serve God? I guess it's normal that they would both be present. But if the natural desire has a strong pull, is that "impure motive," impure enough to be a bad reason?

I remember a girl I met while I was visiting a convent, at the end of the retreat, she said she'd decided to wait to enter, because she wanted to purify her intention and make it just about love. At the time I thought to myself, if you wait to be perfect like that, the day may never come. But now I wonder if maybe she was on to something ...

Edited February 28, 2009 by Lilllabettt

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1792788' date='Feb 27 2009, 09:25 PM']I've been thinking about it more ... and it is a really complex problem. On the one hand, doing the will of God is supposed to make us happy.[/quote]

Whoever told you that?

Read about Mother Teresa's dark night of the soul, that lasted a couple of decades.

One may find "joy" in doing the will of the Lord - restfulness and peace in knowing that one is doing what God has asked.

But joy is not the same as being happy.

Lots of great saints were not especially happy. Pio was a terrible grump. Teresa of Avila went about doing the business of the Lord, but she was the first to say to him, "this is how you treat your friends?"

And of course Bernadette Soubirous led a life of awful deprivation and even in the convent she was treated badly by her superiors and her sisters. Mary told her straight out: I cannot promise you happiness in this life, but in the next..."

Doing God's will does not necessarily equate with happiness.

But joy works itself in, somehow.

[Lilllabettt]

Yeah I guess I used the wrong term.

[Saint Therese]

I knew what you meant. And you're right. You can find a certain happiness in doing the will of God, despite exterior circumstances.
No need to nitpick here. I don't think this is the forum for that.

If I waited to be perfect before entering reliigous life I'd NEVER do it, nor would anyone else.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Saint Therese

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1793407' date='Feb 28 2009, 02:12 AM']I knew what you meant. And you're right. You can find a certain happiness in doing the will of God, despite exterior circumstances.
No need to nitpick here. I don't think this is the forum for that.

If I waited to be perfect before entering reliigous life I'd NEVER do it, nor would anyone else.[/quote]

I wasn't nitpicking. It's just a conversation, right?