Luigi Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 There is a lot of discussion about how to know when one is called, or how to know which charism/order/congregation one is called to, and most of the advice folks share is positive - not in the sense of cheerleading, but in the sense of looking for something that is a definite indication. Some folks have mentioned the overwhelming sense that "This is where I belong;" I've suggested in the past that people find a charism/order/congregation that suits their God-given talents & interests; and so forth. But are there negative reasons, too? I know of a guy who went all the way through the seminary and got ordained, mostly to please his father; needless to say, he didn't stay a priest very long. So I guess joining-to-impress-others is one bad reason, a negative indication. (I didn't kow him personally, and he didn't tell me this personally, but he did say it himself to a mutual friend; and I'm not blaming him - maybe his father was a domineering personality he couldn't stand up to or something .) I'm just trying to figure out... if there are definite good indications to join-an-order/pursue-a-vocation, are there also definite BAD reasons, and what are they? Since so many people seem confused - at least some of the time - about whether they're called and where, maybe it would be helpful to have a plus-and-minus balance sheet of positive & negative signs. And I don't mean I-thought-this-order-was-for-me-but-it-turned-out-not-to-fit; that could happen to anybody. I guess I mean more like personality traits, or motivations (even if you have all the right kinds of personality traits) - that inner analysis stuff rather than signs-of-an-unhealthy-monastic-environment stuff. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [*] I decided when I was seven that I was going to be St. Therese, so I don't have to look at other orders, let alone marriage [*] Men (or women) don't like me, I can't find someone to marry [*] I don't want children / I have never seen myself as a parent / children scare me [*] My best friend/brother/sister became a nun/priest/Brother/Sister and I want it, too [*] The Sister in my church is so awesome [*] If I became a priest the people in my parish wouldn't dismiss all my brilliant ideas All these can be signs of a vocation, but not reasons, if you catch my drift - admiring other religious and receiving the grace to forego the natural want of children is certainly something enough people with a vocation have, but it's not enough to indicate [i]you[/i] have one. Good thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Rose Therese Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Sometimes there are trivial or superficial thing that may initially draw you to an order or to religious life or the priesthood. I think God sometimes uses these thing to catch your attention. However, if those are the things that are your motivation in the end, it is a poor decision. Some examples: Those meantioned in the post above The habit is so pretty I really like these Sisters Religious life seems so romantic or even: This community has all the features I am looking for. After you have really prayed about it, and spent some time experiencing the vocation you think you are called to, these are some things that can indicate you are where you are supposed to be. You feel like you can be yourself there, but also are drawn to grow better. You feel at peace or at home there. The community feels that you are a good fit for their community. You feel that you can be your best "you" there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Bad reasons to pursue any particular vocation, whether marriage, religious life or the priesthood: 1) Stifling home life and the need to "be free" but still taken care of. 2) Trying to fill a void. 3) Romantic illusion that everything will always be sweetness & light. 4) Choosing religious/priesthood because it seems "easier" than dealing with "the world." 5) Choosing marriage because it seems "easier" than the call to religious life. 6) Wanting to "belong" to something by which you can be identified both by what you wear and who you hang with (also true of the desire to become a cop, firefighter or military service person. If you go to it for that reason, you'll stink at it). I think it was Dame Laurentia McLaughlin of Stanbrook Abbey who said something (paraphrase) like, "anyone who goes into religious life hoping to "get" something will be disappointed - it's only by giving everything that you "get" from it." And that is also true of the marriage vocation. Just as a religious or priest must constantly face herself/himself and all their faults, all the times they did not "give" enough, we married people must face it as well. They are all "vowed" lives, and they are all rich, blessed and difficult as hell, if you're living them fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I am on Facebook a lot, and I've noticed there are groups that talk about becoming a nun because: *You've been burned by guys *You can't find anyone decent to marry *Nuns have super powers *Nuns are sexy Then there are these: *Running away from your present life *Needing to be with others *You think becoming a religious is "fun" *Priests and religious are "so cute" (I've actually heard this one) *You like a schedule People need to understand that becoming a religious is not at all "fun and games." It is serious business! You don't go there to "run away" because it won't help. You have people watching your soul daily, so they can usually see that you are there for yourself, and not because God is calling you. Discernment takes a long period. No one should rush into it if they are not ready. I'm prepared to wait a few more years before taking that step because I feel there is unfinished business that Jesus is calling me to finish, like nursing school. I have debts to pay off and medication to be off of for at least a year. But I take this search very seriously because it's a spiritual marriage to Jesus in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 When it comes to the vocation of marriage, I can tell you from my experience working in the tribunal there are many unwise reasons to marry. The worst ones I heard were: -To be able to leave home -Afraid no one else was going to ask to marry them -He had money and a nice car -Because my mom/dad were re-marrying and kicking me out -I didn't want to go to college -I wanted to have a baby to have something to love -All my friends were getting married -Because I/she got pregnant -I thought he'd change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 "I thought he'd change" is a good one. "I thought I'd change" would be the equivalent for religious life. You don't become someone else when you start wearing the pret-a-porter Summer 1425 Collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevotedtoHim Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 There is a girl in my vocation group that wants to become a nun because she got really burned in dating. I think that is a bad reason. One of the vocation directresses that I have been corresponding with said a REALLY good reason to want to enter religious life is because you want to give your whole heart, soul - EVERYTHING - to God. She also said a good reason is because you want to be holy and you know with support of community, a proven life, etc., you CAN become holy (not that other ways of reaching holiness are impossible). Also, she wrote that even though things can be very difficult in religious life, religious learn to rely upon the strength of the community to carry them through. I believe that is a benefit of being in a community. As for other bad reasons, I would think there are a lot of bad reasons, but really, it is a holy vocation and God works in mysterious ways so even if someone enters for the wrong reason, that is what the time of trial would be for and the community and person would figure it out and they would know that is not their vocation. God is good and I believe He can make all things beautiful in His own way and time. So I guess what I am saying is even if someone entered for a "bad" reason, God would have a way, if it is His will, to make things holy for that person. Katherine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1744408' date='Jan 6 2009, 02:09 PM']"I thought he'd change" is a good one. "I thought I'd change" would be the equivalent for religious life. You don't become someone else when you start wearing the pret-a-porter Summer 1425 Collection.[/quote] That is BRILLIANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1744408' date='Jan 6 2009, 01:09 PM']"I thought he'd change" is a good one. "I thought I'd change" would be the equivalent for religious life. You don't become someone else when you start wearing the pret-a-porter Summer 1425 Collection.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 One bad reason that I've heard for entering the priesthood or religious life is that it'll be an automatic ticket to heaven that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 While all those things mentioned are bad reasons to enter religious life or the priesthood by themselves, they can be used by God to attract someone to the religious life. For example-the beautiful habit,etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Yes, that is true. But it is also true that if the fascination [i]stops[/i] there...you're in for a rough ride! I would think that the worst/most problematic situation would not be attraction to superficial aspects of religious life, but rather running away from something in your current life. Whether it is a difficult family situation, uncertainty about the future, dissatisfaction with a job, fear of having to take care of yourself out in the big scary world... ...and all of those are also bad reasons to get married. Though unrealistic expectations (every member of the community will be a living saint and very holy!) will lead to inevitable disappointment. Edited January 7, 2009 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 As for other bad reasons, I would think there are a lot of bad reasons, but really, it is a holy vocation and God works in mysterious ways so even if someone enters for the wrong reason, that is what the time of trial would be for and the community and person would figure it out and they would know that is not their vocation. God is good and I believe He can make all things beautiful in His own way and time. So I guess what I am saying is even if someone entered for a "bad" reason, God would have a way, if it is His will, to make things holy for that person. Well, I certainly believe that all things are possible with God. However... There is nothing magic about ordination or vows - would that it were that easy. If it were, there would be (nor ever have been) no priests who were gay, or breaking their vow of celibacy heterosexually, or alcoholic, or autocratic, nor any nuns who were hateful to their students, or alcoholic, nor any too-worldly popes, and on and on. The upshot is that, while it is possible to join for the wrong reasons and still develop into a holy priest or religious, many people who join for the wrong reasons develop into real problems - I guess that's why orders now require psychological testing, and why they want people to have some work/real-world experience - they've been burned in the past by people joining for the worng reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If someone entered religious life with those motivations, they wouldn't last very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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