Coming And Seeing!

[DevotedtoHim]

Hi everybody! I have a vocation question:

Have you ever felt like you are looking TOO MUCH and are getting overloaded? Do you ever feel totally confused about where God is calling you because you like almost every place you see? Just when I feel like I am on the brink of a decision and am going to take the plunge, something stops me and I feel almost compelled to keep looking. And then I look (usually in my case, writing) and I feel "this is the place!" My spiritual director has been helping me with this but I wonder if anyone else has this experience. I am being sponsored by our vocation group to go visit three monasteries this month. (can you tell I am nervous?) It totally makes sense because of the cost of travel (they all know I am visiting each other, I'm not being sneaky) and the location, but they are all different orders. (all cloistered, all in habits)

I'm just wondering and I guess looking for some feedback on this issue.

Thanks and HNY!

Katherine

[MithLuin]

Well, look at it this way; console yourself that you aren't turned off by every place you visit . At least you don't have the opposite problem!

It is natural for some people to love whatever they are doing, whereever they are at the moment. I would say, while visiting 3 places back to back like that, keep good notes of your impressions and experiences. That way, if you get home and say, "They were all great!" you can go back and re-read and remember, oh yeah, I forgot about...

But like any decision, big or small, you want to make it prayerfully. Don't rush anything, and give yourself time to really reflect before jumping in feet first.

[frenchfry]

This is just my recent opinion, and I could be completely wrong, but I kind of think that too much emphasis can be put on discernment today. I do think it's great that people can find an order that they are suited to, but I'm also afraid that it harms the natual hierarchy for people to go see a dozen or more places, even if they like the first couple. The discerner is almost put in a place above the monastery because he/she picks which is better than the other, and the best and worst parts of each. I also think it's natural for a person with a vocation to fit in many places and have a hard time choosing, and people may spend two years they could have spent in the novitiate running around looking at different places. However, you are going to spend the rest of your life there, so you do want to be in the right place. I guess my advice is that if you already feel good about some of the ones you've seen, you don't need to keep adding more to the mix, but I'm just a discerner myself, so what do I really know?

[Luigi]

[quote name='frenchfry' post='1744197' date='Jan 6 2009, 12:20 AM']This is just my recent opinion, and I could be completely wrong, but I kind of think that too much emphasis can be put on discernment today. I do think it's great that people can find an order that they are suited to, but I'm also afraid that it harms the natual hierarchy for people to go see a dozen or more places, even if they like the first couple. The discerner is almost put in a place above the monastery because he/she picks which is better than the other, and the best and worst parts of each. I also think it's natural for a person with a vocation to fit in many places and have a hard time choosing, and people may spend two years they could have spent in the novitiate running around looking at different places. However, you are going to spend the rest of your life there, so you do want to be in the right place. I guess my advice is that if you already feel good about some of the ones you've seen, you don't need to keep adding more to the mix, but I'm just a discerner myself, so what do I really know?[/quote]


FrenchFry-
You make some good points. I've been doing some reading about American Catholic history, and I think about some of the first people who joined the orders that came to the US back in the 1800s - most of them had little to no choice at all... it was either join-the-local-monastery/order-or-don't-join-anything. In a sense, their discernment was availability, or proximity ... or at least very limited.

DevotedToHim-
What would you call your situation... over-discernment? It's kind of similar to a problem lots of people have with the television, too - 100 channels to choose from but what are they gonna watch? They might like everything (or nothing) that's on. Same thing can happen with restaurants - Pizza? Chinese? Barbecue? Mexican? So much food, so little time! At least with food, there's always another meal tomorrow.... with religious life, you gotta pick one and stick with it.

[VeniteAdoremus]

There's absolutely no harm done in stepping back and thinking things over for a month. Personally, I wouldn't advice visiting monasteries back-to-back, but I can understand how that's the only practical way (especially if you don't live in a country that's 100 miles across like I do).

I went to visit St. Dominic's Priory after I'd already chosen to join the Incarnate Word sisters. So it only goes to show that yes, you can certainly like more than one community. In my case, I have a rather thick head and like to make my own decisions too much, so God had to make it [i]very[/i] clear that St. Dom's was the place to be. Afterwards, my friends urged me to visit a couple more, but I didn't need to, because I "just know".

I still don't think this is the standard case, although I have heard about other people who also had it. It's probably the special treatment for "if I let her muddle around by herself any more it's never going to work"-people.

You can try to keep track of what kind of person you are in each monastery. Do you have to work hard to get to prayers in time? Are you straining to make a good impression? How difficult is it to follow the rhythm? Are you [i]comfortable[/i]?

I learned that the place I wanted to be most is also the place where the life is at the same time the most difficult and the most easy. The most difficult because it stretches you in exactly the places you need to be stretched, which are as per rule also the places you don't want to (even though you know you need it). The most easy because there are all these moments where you can almost [i]feel[/i] the Lord's Grace raining down and making a huge mess of your hair (I think that's what veils are for really).

After you left the monastery, you can try to see how it changed you (they all do, each in a different way) and how you like that.

It seems like God thinks you're a good listener, so He isn't going to spray-paint "Yay" or "Nay" on your guest-room wall. Do you keep a diary?

[the lords sheep]

There is no simple answer to your question, and while I do think there is definitely something such as over-discernment, but because I'm not in your soul right now, I can't tell you if that's where you are....
But, I do have what I found to be some practical advice: Try to avoid what's known as the "perpetual discernment club." These are characterized by people who, while honestly seeking God's will, either get misguided by petty things or are afraid to make a commitment.
The "petty side" (which I've actually encountered) say "I really like this order, and something really moved in my heart when I was there, but I'm going to look elsewhere because I don't like this group's habit, location, schedule, etc." It's true that God usually guides us by our natural inclinations, but sometimes we get so wrapped up in what our conception of a perfect community is ([i]This [/i]type of habit, [i]this [/i]apostalate, [i]this [/i]set of penances, [i]this [/i]way of praying, etc) that we spend more looking for our ideal community that we do listening to what God is whispering in our hearts. These other things are superficialities. It has to be deeper than that. Trust me, if God really wants you to be somewhere, He'll give you the grace to get over the fact that you would prefer the veil to be 3 inches longer.
The second group- the non-committal group- is a little different, and it's a little trickier place to be in (this is the category I more fall into). You'll find, as you discern and even believe to have found the community that's for you, that there always seems to be one reason why not to enter. This takes serious discerning with the help of your spiritual director. Most of the "why nots" in my life, I have discovered, were all part of God's plan for me: I'm not one of those people that goes from A to B to C, so God took me from A to Y to F to 8 to C. The big "why not" right now is that I am afraid and having trouble trusting both my judgment and that God will take care of all the finer details. Honestly, I even think some of the running around and looking everywhere (be it online or via phone, I only visited a few) that I did was my way of controlling my discernment: okay, [b]I[/b]'m going to look here, and then [b]I[/b] am going to [b]do [/b]this, rather than allowing it to be God working in me and through me.
It's not always going to be easy, or fun, or even what we expected or wanted for ourselves, but God has something in mind that is far better than anything you could have chosen for yourself.

God Bless you!

In Christ,
Lauren

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

Dear Katherine,

While I love our personal correspondence, I am going to answer this publicly in the event someone could learn something (since you wrote publicly)!

All good advice above!

I think both my daughters at times had what you are experiencing because we did want to look around and see what was best. And I say "we" because my husband and I were very involved in our daughters' lives, and we wanted to make sure they were entering a very healthy environment - spiritually as well emotionally! - and thank God, our daughters accepted our support/interest and involved us openly.

I can tell you that when I met my husband, I just "knew" he was the one. Both daughters have claimed that when they met the community and entered, they "knew." Neither can explain it. That being said, though, remember Daughter Number One left her first Monastery and left to join another one (same order). It turned out that the first place wasn't a good fit, but I can tell you that if she hadn't had had that experience, she wouldn't have known what a good fit this one is. And though it was very difficult (and she took it hard) to leave, that is also an important part of discerning one's vocation. I'm not entirely convinced that one truly knows until they live the life, and our Church is so good in allowing one time to discover the in's and out's of religious life! While I am not advocating "monastery-hopping" I do want to reinforce that the community and Church allows her sons and daughters time and a set in stone decision doesn't happen for at least five years! (Too bad we don't get that in marriage...just joking! DH would not laugh at that joke!)

So, relax, take the advice above, keep a good journal and pray deeply. Good work in having a spiritual director and stay alert to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit. You'll know!

In Him,

TradMom

[DameAgnes]

I concur with TradMom.

I was very close to entering a Poor Clare monastery in Minnesota but was "waiting" on the advice of the abbess there, because my parents were full-throttle against it and she hoped they'd come around, since it would be easier that way for everyone. One afternoon after mass I prayed fervently that God show me the way, and tell me what He wanted from me, "if I am meant to be enclosed, please show me how to make that happen, and if I am meant to remain in the world, please show me what you have for me..."

A feeling of enormous peace came over me and I knew at that moment that everything would soon be made very clear, and that all obstacles were to be taken out of my way. That night, I met my husband and instantly "knew" just as TradMom did. We've been married almost 30 years, and in retrospect, I believe I would have been a very bad nun, because I haven't been all that great a wife and both roles take love, sacrifice and selflessness once the starry-eyed romance evens out! :-)

And TradMom, "I" appreciated your joke, even if our DH's probably would not. I am so happy to hear that your daughters are thriving in their respective communities. I remember them in my prayers whenever I pray for all of our postulants and novices!

[tinytherese]

When I visited the Benedictine Sisters of Mary, Mother Therese told me to wait until two weeks after the end of my visit to write her a letter expressing my feelings about the visit. That way I could get adjusted to the world outside of the convent and have a break to discern and not make a rash decision.

She also told me that when discerning to have a balance of both heart and head. She has known discerners to be in either just the heart or just the head category.

The heart alone group was the one where the woman was feeling very romantic about the idea of a vocation but spend so much time with their head in the clouds and are stuck in being so starry eyed. However, this heart alone group doesn't last in the community for very long because then they see the realities of being a religious.

The head alone category is so stuck on analysing that they may not make any decision or if they do they don't go beyond what makes sense and forget about their own happiness. (I can entitfy more with this group and Mother pointed this out.)

Yet see why the heart and head need to balance each other off? Both of them are given to us by God and we cannot even survive biologically with just one and not the other and we should satisfy them both.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1744979' date='Jan 7 2009, 07:17 AM']When I visited the Benedictine Sisters of Mary, Mother Therese told me to wait until two weeks after the end of my visit to write her a letter expressing my feelings about the visit. That way I could get adjusted to the world outside of the convent and have a break to discern and not make a rash decision.

She also told me that when discerning to have a balance of both heart and head. She has known discerners to be in either just the heart or just the head category.

The heart alone group was the one where the woman was feeling very romantic about the idea of a vocation but spend so much time with their head in the clouds and are stuck in being so starry eyed. However, this heart alone group doesn't last in the community for very long because then they see the realities of being a religious.

The head alone category is so stuck on analysing that they may not make any decision or if they do they don't go beyond what makes sense and forget about their own happiness. (I can entitfy more with this group and Mother pointed this out.)

Yet see why the heart and head need to balance each other off? Both of them are given to us by God and we cannot even survive biologically with just one and not the other and we should satisfy them both.[/quote]

*claps* I love that analogy! I'm going to write it down.

[Saint Therese]

I don't know if my situation is worth sharing, but here goes. I've only ever seriously discerned with one community. I've been strongly attracted to any other community. I wasn't looking for a community that fulfilled my fantasy of religious life. I wanted and found, a community where the sisters serve our Lord in unity and love, and are very prayerful and reverent. I think each case will be different. But I think it might be a mistake to go "shopping", since its not up to us where we're called. Jesus already knows where he wants us to go, we just have to figure out where that is.

[osapientia]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1745574' date='Jan 7 2009, 10:27 PM']But I think it might be a mistake to go "shopping", since its not up to us where we're called. Jesus already knows where he wants us to go, we just have to figure out where that is.[/quote]

I don't want to assume anything, it seems to me, (based on the above) StTherese, that you believe there is only one right place (or person in the case of the married vocation) for each of us?

Am I reading you correctly on that?

I'm also not completely sure what you mean by "since it's not up to us where we are called".

Pax

[DevotedtoHim]

Thanks for all the answers!

I guess I feel like the "real" Saint Therese in which she said, “ . . . I feel within me other vocations. I feel the vocation of THE WARRIOR, THE PRIEST, THE APOSTLE, THE DOCTOR, THE MARTYR.” (translations may differ, I just googled this!)

I sort of feel within me the vocation of THE BENEDICTINE, THE CARMELITE, THE POOR CLARE, THE DOMINICAN!

I don't think it's "over discernment" I think it's feeling so much at once and seeing the beauty in each spirituality/charism.

Those of you who said that you believe "I'll know" gave me comfort. Thank you.

Katherine

[osapientia]

[quote name='DevotedtoHim' post='1746081' date='Jan 8 2009, 01:45 PM']Thanks for all the answers!

I guess I feel like the "real" Saint Therese in which she said, “ . . . I feel within me other vocations. I feel the vocation of THE WARRIOR, THE PRIEST, THE APOSTLE, THE DOCTOR, THE MARTYR.” (translations may differ, I just googled this!)

I sort of feel within me the vocation of THE BENEDICTINE, THE CARMELITE, THE POOR CLARE, THE DOMINICAN!

I don't think it's "over discernment" I think it's feeling so much at once and seeing the beauty in each spirituality/charism.

Those of you who said that you believe "I'll know" gave me comfort. Thank you.

Katherine[/quote]

When my spiritual director was with the Carthusians (he's now a diocesan priest), his ancient (his word, not mine) and holy novice master used to tell him - "follow the peace". St. Benedict says, Seek peace and pursue it. St. Augustine said, Love God and do what you will.

Ya can't beat the Saints in heaven for good spiritual direction.

Pax

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='DevotedtoHim' post='1743868' date='Jan 5 2009, 08:23 PM']Hi everybody! I have a vocation question:

Have you ever felt like you are looking TOO MUCH and are getting overloaded? Do you ever feel totally confused about where God is calling you because you like almost every place you see? Just when I feel like I am on the brink of a decision and am going to take the plunge, something stops me and I feel almost compelled to keep looking. And then I look (usually in my case, writing) and I feel "this is the place!" My spiritual director has been helping me with this but I wonder if anyone else has this experience. I am being sponsored by our vocation group to go visit three monasteries this month. (can you tell I am nervous?) It totally makes sense because of the cost of travel (they all know I am visiting each other, I'm not being sneaky) and the location, but they are all different orders. (all cloistered, all in habits)

I'm just wondering and I guess looking for some feedback on this issue.

Thanks and HNY!

Katherine[/quote]

I think I shared your problem, somewhat, earlier on in my discernment. There are still moments when I wonder if the Poor Clares are better, but for me, the Carmelites are what God has in mind for me, and I couldn't be happier! I prayed about it so much and I made posts on public forums seeing what others had to say, but when I stepped back later, and thought about what my heart felt while I was on retreat with the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in St. Louis this past year, I understood that I had found the order God was calling me to! The way I discovered it was really unique and beautiful.

The last night I was there, I was there alone because all the other girls had flights the same day the retreat ended. I couldn't find one until the next day. But I think God had a reason. He understood that I would spend too much time focusing on my friend and the other girls while I was there, instead of what I originally came to do. That last night, the Sisters invited me to pray the Office in their choir. I immediately took the opportunity to share this. I got my long jumper dress on and went to the Chapel to pray before the Sisters arrived. I asked God to please give me a sign. I had been sick the rest of the weekend, so I really needed to know if I should come back to this community later or not. That time was so special because I sat there, looking at the crucifix, pondering whether or not this was where I was being called. Then I heard the rustling of habits and the jingling of keys. The Sisters were coming to the choir (which is behind the altar in the Chapel). Sr. Maris Stella opened the door and invited me in. A beautiful peace came over me. I settled into the little pew next to the Sister, waiting for the signal to rise. When I stood up, all I could see was the Tabernacle and the crucifix in front of me. I got this overwhelming calm (so much so that I couldn't really pray the Office with the Sisters because I was transfixed on the Crucifix) and felt that God was calling me to this order, but not this particular community. I found out why. I'll get to that later.

I left the next day, and had a difficult time readjusting to the life outside. I wanted to go back so badly. But something happened, which was that I forgot about that peace I felt since I didn't write it down, but Jesus reminded me in prayer about 4 months later. I went to school and completed my Nursing Assistant training. While on clinicals, I felt God calling me to become a Registered Nurse. I just "knew" that this was my vocation, along with being a Sister. I plan to complete this calling after I am a CNA for a few months (for money reasons).

I began to get restless, though, because I had forgotten about my discernment during those 4 months of school. I went to Adoration several times praying for Jesus to show me the way. He finally spoke to me and reminded me of the peace I felt with the Carmelite Sisters. This was the first time I had thought about it since the retreat. He reminded me that He had given me the sign I was asking for, but that I would get another sign in a few days about where I was headed. He never fails on His promises. I got a VERY clear sign from the Northern Province of the Carmelite DCJ sisters in Milwaukee about 2 days later!!! They have MUCH more nursing needs than the Central Province. I immediately emailed the sister, and she told me that their next vocation retreat will probably be in February, but I am welcome anytime. I hope to get there very soon!

I just found a spiritual director, so I have been doing my discernment on my own until recently. I would not recommend this, unless you had a lot of trouble finding one like I did. I think Jesus wanted me to trust Him completely and let Him show me Himself.

My advice, through my story, is to go where you feel the most called. I read about the Carmelite Sisters on the website that my friend sent me to, and fell in love with everything. Be careful about romanticizing the idea too much, because I had some fault in that. I kept believing that I would love everything about the weekend, but I fell sick. God teaches us seperately and uniquely. Let Him into your heart! Pray about it, go to the community, and be ready for anything, whether it's the "just know" feeling I and others on this forum described, or nothing at all. It doesn't mean you will know right away. My friend had to go twice to receive the "just know" feeling. God bless you! I am praying for you!

Edited January 8, 2009 by InHisLove726