U S Healthcare Needs Fixed!

[Nihil Obstat]

I've always wondered about private versus public healthcare.
In Canada, as you know, we have public healthcare, and that has significant disadvantages of its own, but private it seems is no better, maybe worse.
I'm all for private enterprise (really, I am!), but if a system is broken, as broken as some people say it is, something needs to change.

What are the alternatives?

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1742901' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:25 PM']I've always wondered about private versus public healthcare.
In Canada, as you know, we have public healthcare, and that has significant disadvantages of its own, but private it seems is no better, maybe worse.
I'm all for private enterprise (really, I am!), but if a system is broken, as broken as some people say it is, something needs to change.

What are the alternatives?[/quote]

I'm on the fency myself. I agree, there are pros and cons to both. One issue I have with private health care is that I feel that pharmaceutical companies hold an inordinate amount of power. With the nursing home, even though I wasn't in a medical department, I had to attend inservices by drug companies just to honor our contract with them and give face. I really don't think our reason for contracting with these companies had anything to do with better care, it was all the bottom line. The same issue, at least in my experience, went for other contractors. Orthopedic surgeons, dentists, hospitals, etc. I know that there are issues in public healthcare too but for me, the major issue I have with private health care is that there are always a lot of business's interests at stake in most decisions made my healthcare professionals. -Katie

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1742861' date='Jan 4 2009, 05:57 PM']Hmm, honestly I worked at a nursing home that accepted both Medicare and private pay patients and it wasn't perfect but it was a really great facility overall. The administration-yeah they definitely brownnosed the private pay patients to some extent because nursing homes are, after all, a business, but I have to say that I think the medical care given and overall attention was definitely equal. I live in New York State and I must say, though I hated the inspections, the department of health did a pretty good job of making sure Medicare/Private Pay was a balanced ratio and that care was good for both.-Katie[/quote]

I suspect that New York has better rules or inspectors. Your facility also took private pay patients. The next time you are in Florida on vacation, go into a medicaid only facility. Not long before I moved to Canada there was a woman killed by fire ants in her bed. She was dead awhile before anyone noticed. The home my grandfather was in was so bad they tied him in a chair so he wouldn't wander away. He had dementia. My mom went to the health inspector who laughed in her face. She was finally able to get her congressman to go to the inspector's boss and it got somewhat cleaned up, at least until my grandfather passed away. By the time my grandmother went, it was just as bad if not worse.

I have only respect for people who do this kind of work. I know they are overworked, under staffed, underpaid, doing a job most people wouldn't do. In St. Pete the only people who worked in nursing homes, except the professional staff, were recent parolees. No one else would take the job. Maybe that's just a Southern thing. You definitely don't want to be old or poor in the south.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1742919' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:39 PM']I suspect that New York has better rules or inspectors. Your facility also took private pay patients. The next time you are in Florida on vacation, go into a medicaid only facility. Not long before I moved to Canada there was a woman killed by fire ants in her bed. She was dead awhile before anyone noticed. The home my grandfather was in was so bad they tied him in a chair so he wouldn't wander away. He had dementia. My mom went to the health inspector who laughed in her face. She was finally able to get her congressman to go to the inspector's boss and it got somewhat cleaned up, at least until my grandfather passed away. By the time my grandmother went, it was just as bad if not worse.

I have only respect for people who do this kind of work. I know they are overworked, under staffed, underpaid, doing a job most people wouldn't do. In St. Pete the only people who worked in nursing homes, except the professional staff, were recent parolees. No one else would take the job. Maybe that's just a Southern thing. You definitely don't want to be old or poor in the south.[/quote]

That's awful; I actually heard that story about the fire ants from my dad-it's insane. -We weren't allowed to use any physical restraints-I think they're illegal in long term care facilities in NY. Yeah, you are definitely right that there are a lot of problems in the nursing home. I'm truly sorry about your grandpa. I absolutely loved working with residents with dementia-they were very special population to me and I think the way they are treated in many facilities is inhuman. Actually, most times we had to send someone to the hospital they were treated abominally, so we hated to have to do it. I do think overall NY has a pretty good health department. At my nursing home (I worked there until a couple of months ago, I left because I'm going back to school and was offered a job working for a relative in the meantime) most people hated the Health Department because they were kind of a bummer to have come in and scrutinize-and honestly at times I think they were unduly harsh given the minimum staffing requirements they have (which are far too low), but they were pretty good, overall, about making sure things were running pretty well. My grandpa is a resident at the home I worked at and once had an "altercation" where he ended up getting hurt (though it was an accident) and I felt they handled it really well-they interviewed him privately and asked if he felt comfortable working with the people involved and such. Government agencies definitely aren't perfect, though-I've known of other facilities nearby where they've dropped the ball. -Katie

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1742919' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:39 PM']You definitely don't want to be old or poor in the south.[/quote]
I do not think you would want to be old and in poor health anywhere when our culture of death government controls the health care system.

Look what happened when our Federal Government was given say in the abortion matter. Over 3 thousand abortions a day. And we want to give the same Federal Government control over health care for the rest of us?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742873' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:08 PM']It will be interesting to see how the nation handles the retirement of the 79 million babyboomers, which began this year. At the present time an average of 10,000 babyboomers retire each day, and that figure will grow in the coming years.[/quote]
The government in Japan has stated, in all seriousness, that they might just ship their old people to the Philippines.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1742935' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:59 PM']I do not think you would want to be old and in poor health anywhere when our culture of death government controls the health care system.

Look what happened when our Federal Government was given say in the abortion matter. Over 3 thousand abortions a day. And we want to give the same Federal Government control over health care for the rest of us?[/quote]

Definitely true-though I don't think that giving businesses control over the health care system is necessarily a better option, you know? -Katie

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1742938' date='Jan 4 2009, 09:04 PM']Definitely true-though I don't think that giving businesses control over the health care system is necessarily a better option, you know? -Katie[/quote]
Businesses don't use threat of law and deadly force to get things done. Government does.

Plus if you don't like the way business is done, in any industry, you don't need to resort to violent uprising and revolution to shake it off. The same can't be said of governments.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1742940' date='Jan 4 2009, 09:08 PM']Businesses don't use threat of law and deadly force to get things done. Government does.

Plus if you don't like the way business is done, in any industry, you don't need to resort to violent uprising and revolution to shake it off. The same can't be said of governments.[/quote]

That's a good point. My issue is that it's hard, though, depending on your insurance/doctor/rx, complications can arise when it comes to which companies work together, which insurances cover which drugs, etc. I don't think either is a great solution, I guess. But, then again, I can't see any other alternatives. -Katie

[cmotherofpirl]

Who are Who are the uninsured?


Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.1
The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 8 million people since 2000.1
The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.
Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.3
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families – almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.2
The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 62 percent in 2007. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.4, 5
In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.6
In 2007, 37 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.1
The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million – or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S.1
Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2007 – 28.1 percent of this group did not have health insurance.1
The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 32.1 percent and 15 million in 2007.1
Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more.1 A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

Why is the number of uninsured people increasing?


Millions of workers don’t have the opportunity to get health coverage. A third of firms in the U.S. did not offer coverage in 2007.4
Nearly two-fifths (38 percent) of all workers are employed in smaller businesses, where less than two-thirds of firms now offer health benefits to their employees.7 It is estimated that 266,000 companies dropped their health coverage between 2000-2005 and 90 percent of those firms have less than 25 employees.
Rapidly rising health insurance premiums are the main reason cited by all small firms for not offering coverage. Health insurance premiums are rising at extraordinary rates. The average annual increase in inflation has been 2.5 percent while health insurance premiums for small firms have escalated an average of 12 percent annually.4
Even if employees are offered coverage on the job, they can’t always afford their portion of the premium. Employee spending for health insurance coverage (employee’s share of family coverage) has increased 120 percent between 2000 and 2006.8
Losing a job, or quitting voluntarily, can mean losing affordable coverage – not only for the worker but also for their entire family. Only seven (7) percent of the unemployed can afford to pay for COBRA health insurance – the continuation of group coverage offered by their former employers. Premiums for this coverage average almost $700 a month for family coverage and $250 for individual coverage, a very high price given the average $1,100 monthly unemployment check.9
Coverage is unstable during life’s transitions. A person’s link to employer-sponsored coverage can also be cut by a change from full-time to part-time work, or self-employment, retirement or divorce.10

How does being uninsured harm individuals and families?


Lack of insurance compromises the health of the uninsured because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at more advanced disease stages, and once diagnosed, tend to receive less therapeutic care and have higher mortality rates than insured individuals.11
Regardless of age, race, ethnicity, income or health status, uninsured children were much less likely to have received a well-child checkup within the past year. One study shows that nearly 50 percent of uninsured children did not receive a checkup in 2003, almost twice the rate (26 percent) for insured children.12
The uninsured are increasingly paying “up front” -- before services will be rendered. When they are unable to pay the full medical bill in cash at the time of service, they can be turned away except in life-threatening circumstances.7
About 20 percent of the uninsured (vs. three percent of those with coverage) say their usual source of care is the emergency room.2
Studies estimate that the number of excess deaths among uninsured adults age 25-64 is in the range of 18,000 a year. This mortality figure is more than the number of deaths from diabetes (17,500) within the same age group.10
According to one study, over a third of the uninsured have problems paying medical bills. The unpaid bills were substantial enough that many had been turned over to collection agencies – and nearly a quarter of the uninsured adults said they had changed their way of life significantly to pay medical bills.13

What additional costs are created by the uninsured population?


The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis.14
Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year.14
Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage.14
The uninsured are 30 to 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300.14
The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices.11
A study found that 29 percent of people who had health insurance were “underinsured” with coverage so meager they often postponed medical care because of costs.15 Nearly 50 percent overall, and 43 percent of people with health coverage, said they were “somewhat” to “completely” unprepared to cope with a costly medical emergency over the coming year.15
Getting Everyone Covered Will Save Lives and Money

The impacts of going uninsured are clear and severe. Many uninsured individuals postpone needed medical care which results in increased mortality and billions of dollars lost in productivity and increased expenses to the health care system. There also exists a significant sense of vulnerability to the potential loss of health insurance which is shared by tens of millions of other Americans who have managed to retain coverage.

Every American should have health care coverage, participation should be mandatory, and everyone should have basic benefits.

Notes

DeNavas-Walt, C.B. Proctor, and J. Smith. Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2007. U.S. Census Bureau., August 2008.
The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. The Uninsured: A Primer, Key Facts About Americans without Health Insurance. October 2006. [url="http://www.kff.org/uninsured/"]http://www.kff.org/uninsured/[/url]
Families USA. Wrong Direction: One Out of Three Americans are Uninsured. September 2007. [url="http://familiesusa.org/assets/pdfs/wrong-direction.pdf"]http://familiesusa.org/assets/pdfs/wrong-direction.pdf[/url]
The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2008 Annual Survey. September 2008. [url="http://www.kff.org/insurance/7672/index.cfm"]http://www.kff.org/insurance/7672/index.cfm[/url]
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The Number of Uninsured Americans is at an All-Time High. 29 August 2006 [url="http://www.cbpp.org/8-29-06health.pdf"]http://www.cbpp.org/8-29-06health.pdf[/url].
Clemens-Cope, Lisa, et al, Changes in Employees’ Health Insurance Coverage, 2001-2005, Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, October 2006.
The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. The Uninsured: A Primer, Key Facts About Americans without Health Insurance. January 2006. ttp://www.kff.org/uninsured/.
The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Employee Health Benefits: 2008 Annual Survey. September 2008. [url="http://www.kff.org/insurance/7672/index.cfm"]http://www.kff.org/insurance/7672/index.cfm[/url]
Dalrymple, M., “Senators Seek Tax Credit for Unemployed.” Associated Press, 9 October 2003.
Institute of Medicine. Insuring America’s Health – Principles and Recommendations. The National Academies Press, 2004.
Institute of Medicine. Care Without Coverage – Too Little, Too Late. The National Academies Press, 2002.
The Urban Institute. Key Findings from the 2002 National Health Interview Survey. 9 August 2004.
The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. Access to Care for the Uninsured: An Update. 29 September 2003 [url="http://www.kff.org/uninsured/4142.cfm"]http://www.kff.org/uninsured/4142.cfm[/url].
Institute of Medicine. Hidden Costs, Values Lost: Uninsurance in America. The National Academies Press. 17 June 2003 [url="http://www.iom.edu/Report.asp?id=12313"]http://www.iom.edu/Report.asp?id=12313[/url].
Consumer Reports. Are You Really Covered? September 2007.
©

[Hassan]

Hopefully this will get a more substantive response than the dogged insistence that American health care, all evidence to the contrary, is the “greatest in the world” or some red herring.

[Paddington]

There are about 40 employees where I work and less than 10 get enough hours to qualify for insurance. And the insurance isn't that good.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
cmom, i'm moving all the pertinent posts from the hijacked thread into this thread.

[KnightofChrist]

For a preview of National Healthcare in America go to a VA Hospital or most any open-door clinic and see how the people are treated like dogs.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742055' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:03 PM']I have no problem with universal health care. People have a right not to lose everything they own because they get sick.[/quote]
Exactly. People shouldn't have to worry about getting the care they need if something comes up. I've seen cases where people could no longer get health insurance because they had a pre-existing condition, and had to pay thousands for the care they needed. There are enough things to worry about without having to decide between major debt and medical care.

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1742174' date='Jan 4 2009, 12:18 AM']The solution to that is not universa health care but gettign the gov't OUT of the process.
Also, if we had universal health care we would have no choices. AND it would probably make abortion even more widespread.[/quote]
Not true in all cases. I've lived under the NHS for 2.5 years now, and granted, I can only speak of how it is in Liverpool. I have a choice in doctor & practice (there are 4 docs in my practice, and I can choose any of them, or I can choose another practice). If I wanted, I could get private insurance and go with a private doctor, but I've not seen a need to do so. My family have had excellent care, from my pregnancy & Kieran's birth to my husband's emergency appendectomy in March.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742196' date='Jan 4 2009, 12:31 AM']Well the insurance companies are already doing that, so what else is new. People should not lose every penny they have or spend the rest of their lives paying medical bills when their children get sick. Up until the "housing crisis" most people filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills.[/quote]


[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742285' date='Jan 4 2009, 01:35 AM']My sisterinlaw who lived in Spain died after 9 years of struggling with a brain tumor. She left no medical bills.
My best friends daughter died of a brain tumor 19 years ago - they are still paying the bills. My ex-husband has prostate cancer and is working with coverage and chooses between paying co-pays and eating. My nephew has leukemia and even with insurance they will be paying the bills for the next 25 years or so. I could go on and on. Its wrong and not civilized.[/quote]
Agreed. It's very sad.