U S Healthcare Needs Fixed!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742297' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:44 PM']Canada has rationed health care, and that is exactly what the U.S. will get if there is a federal take over of the health care system.[/quote]
Rationed health care is better than no health care.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742299' date='Jan 3 2009, 06:46 PM']Rationed health care is better than no health care.[/quote]
I don't agree. Ultimately the transfer of wealth involved in this take over, like the transfer of wealth in the federal bailouts of banks and other businesses, harms people like me (a taxpaying citizen). I have always paid my way, and saved my money, and to see my taxes going to bailout poorly run businesses or to pay for other peoples medical expenses (and not all those who will benefit from the government take over will be poor) is an abuse of my freedoms. I am not rich, but I work hard and save money, and now the government will step in and take care of people, some deserving and some not, and massively inflate the currency and make my savings worthless. That is simply foolish. We must not forget that it is the Church, and not the government that has a duty to help the poor.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1742138' date='Jan 3 2009, 06:48 PM']Why is it when I say the same thing, I get jumped on as being a pinko communist?[/quote]
Cause you're "from" Canada (now).

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742267' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:20 PM']Perhaps when you are taking care of your elderly mother you will have a different viewpoint.[/quote]

If they change the definition of euthanasia by then I certainly will.

[quote]In 2006 I had to take my mother to the emergency room because she was suffering from pneumonia. Upon arriving there and being seen by a doctor she was told that she could be admitted to the hospital or she could go home and be comfortable there while taking some oral antibiotics. He told me that it didn't look good and that I should probably prepare for the worst. It took me more than an hour to convince my mother to be admitted to the hospital because the doctor had told her she would be less comfortable there than at home. She was finally admitted to the hospital at 300am and was given levaquin intravenously, which is what saved her life. She went home four days later and has been fine since. Later, when talking to my sister who is an LVN, she said that our mother would have died if she had gone home and that that doctor was a fool.[/quote]

I am honestly glad your mother is fine and wish her all the best

[quote]If you do not think that there are people out there who really only see the bottom line, and that an elderly person is in some sense a burden, then you are a fool.[/quote]

Don't believe that.

[quote]Live a little life and then get back to me.[/quote]

You know next to nothing about me or my life.

Your argument is a bad one and deeply logically flawed, bringing in the plight of your mother in no way helps your quixotic argument or changes the definition of euthanasia.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742305' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:50 PM']I don't agree. Ultimately the transfer of wealth involved in this take over, like the transfer of wealth in the federal bailouts of banks and other businesses harms people like me. I have always paid my way, and saved my money, and to see my taxes going to bailout poorly run businesses or to pay for other peoples medical expenses (and not all those who will benefit from the government take over are poor) is an abuse of my freedoms. I am not rich, but I work hard and save money, and now the government will step in and take care of people some deserving and some not. That is simply foolish. We must not forget that it is the Church, and not the government that has a duty to help the poor.[/quote]
What about all the people who work for small companies who can't afford health insurance? What about all the companies who keep their employees at 30 hours a week so they don't have to cover them? What about all the new college grads who can't find a job and have no coverage? What about the small cities and towns who can't afford to pay their employee's health insurance? Last year alone the insurance company here raised the local municipality's insurance a whopping 83%. As a result I am not sure we even met our payroll for the month of December.
There are 47 million people who don't have coverage. Is the Church gonna cover all of them?

[Apotheoun]

Since euthanasia is not truly merciful, my definition of it fits quite nicely.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742315' date='Jan 3 2009, 06:57 PM']What about all the people who work for small companies who can't afford health insurance? What about all the companies who keep their employees at 30 hours a week so they don't have to cover them? What about all the new college grads who can't find a job and have no coverage? What about the small cities and towns who can't afford to pay their employee's health insurance? Last year alone the insurance company here raised the local municipality's insurance a whopping 83%. As a result I am not sure we even met our payroll for the month of December.
There are 47 million people who don't have coverage. Is the Church gonna cover all of them?[/quote]
Cmom,

I work for a small private high school. The school does not provide me with any insurance.

[add]

Healthcare professionals in our country are dedicated, highly trained professionals there skills, caring along with the spectacular institutions, fantastic equipment available are unparalleled anywhere else in the world.
Many of the finest doctors and specialist are foreign born, who work in this country because the opportunity does not exist in there home land.
I consider myself darn lucky to have the excellent health care we have, here in America and thank God for this wonderful blessing.
Take a hard look sometime at typical large Hospital interworking matrix. It is marvelous and a good thing.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1742285' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:35 PM']My sisterinlaw who lived in Spain died after 9 years of struggling with a brain tumor. She left no medical bills.
My best friends daughter died of a brain tumor 19 years ago - they are still paying the bills. My ex-husband has prostate cancer and is working with coverage and chooses between paying co-pays and eating. My nephew has leukemia and even with insurance they will be paying the bills for the next 25 years or so. I could go on and on. Its wrong and not civilized.[/quote]

It's appalling

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1742319' date='Jan 3 2009, 07:00 PM']It's appalling[/quote]
It is life. Life throws many things at you, but you can only be defeated if you give up.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='apparently' post='1742318' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:59 PM']Healthcare professionals in our country are dedicated, highly trained professionals there skills, caring along with the spectacular institutions, fantastic equipment available are unparalleled anywhere else in the world.
Many of the finest doctors and specialist are foreign born, who work in this country because the opportunity does not exist in there home land.
I consider myself darn lucky to have the excellent health care we have, here in America and thank God for this wonderful blessing.
Take a hard look sometime at typical large Hospital interworking matrix. It is marvelous and a good thing.[/quote]
As long as you can afford to pay for it...

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742316' date='Jan 3 2009, 09:58 PM']Since euthanasia is not truly merciful, my definition of it fits quite nicely.[/quote]


It does not matter if it actually [i]is[/i] a mercy the key point is the agent's intent.

Your argument is bad, I don't care if you admit it or not, I really don't, but there is no reason to defend the intellectually indefensible.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1742322' date='Jan 3 2009, 07:03 PM']It does not matter if it actually [i]is[/i] a mercy the key point is the agent's intent.[/quote]
I do not agree. In fact, your statement is contrary to Catholic doctrine. One may never do evil that good may come of it, or to put it another way, the ends do not justify the means.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1742323' date='Jan 3 2009, 10:05 PM']I do not agree. In fact, your statement is contrary to Catholic doctrine. One may never do evil that good may come of it, or to put it another way, the ends do not justify the means.[/quote]

The Church may be absolutly correct in its moral philosophy, that does not change the definition of the word in question.

[CatherineM]

I have lived with gold card insurance, hmo, no insurance, and now national insurance. My ideas about insurance/health care were brought home when I stopped at my first 7-11 in Canada to buy a pop. When the clerk handed me my change, I stood there looking back and forth for the milk carton or pickle jar. There wasn't one. The clerk looked at me very strangely. When was the last time you were in a convenience store in the US where there wasn't a collection for a child sick with cancer, or someone needing a transplant? When a child becomes sick here, their parents can actually worry about helping their child get better rather than worrying about losing their house or their job.