8 Year Old Denied Divorce - Saudi Arabia

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1738070' date='Dec 29 2008, 07:12 PM']The Salafi movement [i]is[/i] distinct from Wahhab's movement.[/quote]

Most Salafi scholars disagree. The argument is that the distinctions are not great enough to rationalise a "splitting" of the school into subsets. Whether that is a reasoned argument, or simply Salafi indignation....

Edited December 30, 2008 by MichaelF

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1738048' date='Dec 29 2008, 06:53 PM']Michael, you seem to know quite a bit on Islam. What is your source? Wht are you reading?[/quote]


The Army sent us (Company Grade Officers) to "muslim and arab school", prior to our second OIF deployment (the first being the Invasion, which was a bit "come as you are").

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1738561' date='Dec 30 2008, 01:24 AM']The Army sent us (Company Grade Officers) to "muslim and arab school", prior to our second OIF deployment (the first being the Invasion, which was a bit "come as you are").[/quote]

My daughter is heading to "arab and muslim" school in 5 days.

[Christie_M]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1738563' date='Dec 29 2008, 10:27 PM']My daughter is heading to "arab and muslim" school in 5 days.[/quote]
I know I'm pretty ignorant, but may I ask what that is?

[Hassan]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1738559' date='Dec 30 2008, 01:21 AM']Most Salafi scholars disagree. The argument is that the distinctions are not great enough to rationalise a "splitting" of the school into subsets. Whether that is a reasoned argument, or simply Salafi indignation....[/quote]

Sure, they can argue that and I wouldn’t claim to know enough to contradict them. I would just object to the notion of the two being identical.

[Hassan]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1737852' date='Dec 29 2008, 04:48 PM']Not surprising. Salafi "jurisprudence" was responsible* for recently "reopening" the slavery debate in islamic society (hint: the Saudi Salafis came down on the side of slavery), after it had been condemned as unislamic, at the end of the XIXth Century.
Slavery, despite being formally outlawed (in the ancient days of 1963), is still extant in Saudi Arabia.

Note: for all intents and purposes, Salafi = Wahhabi (Salafis disagree on this, as they don't think Ibn Abdul Wahhab actually established a seperate school worth distinction from the Salafi stream).


*--In 2003 a high-level Saudi jurist, Shaykh Salih al-Fawzaan, issued a fatwa claiming “Slavery is a part of Islam. Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.” He attacked Muslim scholars who said otherwise maintaining, “They are ignorant, not scholars ... They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” At the time of the fatwa, al-Fawzaan was a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country.[/quote]


Lol. I have yet to see a Wahhabi scholar miss an opportunity to excommunicate another Muslim.

You mentioned slavery being declared unislamic in the 19th century. What Fatwa was that? I’d be interested in reading it if you knew the title.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Christie_M' post='1738573' date='Dec 30 2008, 01:37 AM']I know I'm pretty ignorant, but may I ask what that is?[/quote]
Part of her extended Army training.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1738582' date='Dec 30 2008, 12:51 AM']You mentioned slavery being declared unislamic in the 19th century. What Fatwa was that? I’d be interested in reading it if you knew the title.[/quote]


Poor choice of words on my part. Not "unislamic" (save that you cannot enslave muslims, and the continued bondage of a person who converts to islam is.......contraversial), but "outdated" (ISTR that was the word used).

Couldn't give you a specific fatwa (rather, it seems to have been multiple rulings, along with civil rulings by muslim potentates, at the end of the XIXth Century, likely to avoid bringing the British Empire's wrath down), but Syed Qutb (foremost scholar of the Muslim Brotherhood) pronounced it to have been neccessary (as infidels used slaves, obliging muslims to do the same to keep up, in terms of labor*), but now "out of date", as the other cultures no longer use keep slaves.



*-which doesn't explain the [i]awesome[/i] number of [i]sexual[/i] slaves kept in islamic cultures.

[Hassan]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1738602' date='Dec 30 2008, 02:12 AM']Poor choice of words on my part. Not "unislamic" (save that you cannot enslave muslims, and the continued bondage of a person who converts to islam is.......contraversial), but "outdated" (ISTR that was the word used).

Couldn't give you a specific fatwa (rather, it seems to have been multiple rulings, along with civil rulings by muslim potentates, at the end of the XIXth Century, likely to avoid bringing the British Empire's wrath down), but Syed Qutb (foremost scholar of the Muslim Brotherhood) pronounced it to have been neccessary (as infidels used slaves, obliging muslims to do the same to keep up, in terms of labor*), but now "out of date", as the other cultures no longer use keep slaves.



*-which doesn't explain the [i]awesome[/i] number of [i]sexual[/i] slaves kept in islamic cultures.[/quote]


ah, well that makes a lot more sense. I had never read that about Qutb but I suppose it makes sense given his larger religious thought

[Didacus]

By the time she hits puberty, she might be stoned to death.

 

What a racist thing to say - shame on you for inferring that islam is unreasonable.
 

[CatherineM]

Wow, has she been gone for 6 years?

[The Bus Station]

If Madame V came back I think Phatmass would explode and we would all go flying into space -- not cyberspace, outer space.

[Didacus]

I miss LittleLes...

:cry: