reyb Posted December 26, 2008 Author Share Posted December 26, 2008 [indent]Why God is love? Because.... God is God and everything about God is God. The Spirit of God is God himself. The word of God is God himself, The Power of God is God himself, the wisdom of God is God himself, therefore, the love of God is God himself, Because God is God and everything about God is God. And there is no trinity there but Only God.[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salterrae Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 (edited) JM + JT [quote name='reyb' post='1735844' date='Dec 26 2008, 03:30 PM']It simply means that the Father is a loving God who loves his Son. And the Son, who is being loved by His Father is also a loving God who loves his Father. In short, God love himself. Is it not the same as God is a loving God who love himself? Now, how come God is love in that argument?[/quote] Of course if God [i]is[/i] Love He will be loving. God is Love itself, the perfection of all love we know, because of this love between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the Trinity that makes Him Love itself. But for someone who does not believe in this Trinity (which totally denies Jesus's - who is higher in authority than Apostle Paul - own words to baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit") there is no reason to call God Love itself. So to deny that God is Love is to deny the Trinity and to deny the Trinity is to deny God is Love. Edited December 26, 2008 by salterrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 26, 2008 Author Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='salterrae' post='1735859' date='Dec 26 2008, 03:10 PM']JM + JT Of course if God [i]is[/i] Love He will be loving. God is Love itself, the perfection of all love we know, because of this love between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. [color="#0000FF"]It is the Trinity that makes Him Love itself.[/color] But for someone who does not believe in this Trinity (which totally denies Jesus's - who is higher in authority than Apostle Paul - own words to baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit") there is no reason to call God Love itself. So to deny that God is Love is to deny the Trinity and to deny the Trinity is to deny God is Love.[/quote] [indent]Can you please explain to me in what way God is love by saying 'It is the trinity that makes him love itself'? Can you please give some presentation?[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 26, 2008 Author Share Posted December 26, 2008 [indent]From Catechism PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT [color="#0000FF"]731 On the day of Pentecost when the seven weeks of Easter had come to an end, Christ's Passover is fulfilled in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, manifested, given, and communicated as a divine person: of his fullness, Christ, the Lord, pours out the Spirit in abundance.122 732 On that day, the Holy Trinity is fully revealed. Since that day, the Kingdom announced by Christ has been open to those who believe in him: in the humility of the flesh and in faith, they already share in the communion of the Holy Trinity. By his coming, which never ceases, the Holy Spirit causes the world to enter into the "last days," the time of the Church, the Kingdom already -inherited though not yet consummated. We have seen the true Light, we have received the heavenly Spirit, we have found the true faith: we adore the indivisible Trinity, who has saved us.123[/color] [indent]--------------[/indent] 122 Cf. Acts 2:33-36. 123 Byzantine liturgy, Pentecost Vespers, Troparion, repeated after communion.[/indent] [indent]--------------------[/indent] [indent]May I know, what ‘day’ in #732 is referring to? ‘[color="#0000FF"]On that day, the Holy Trinity is fully revealed’[/color] If it is on the day of Pentecost the Holy Trinity is fully revealed, why then Apostle Paul never mentioned anything about the Holy Trinity?[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salterrae Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) JM + JT In the OT, God the Father is revealed to us. He promises God the Son (the Messiah) to us. In the Gospels, God the Son is revealed to us through the Incarnation, etc. He then promises us God the Holy Spirit. In Acts, God the Holy Spirit is revealed to us at Pentecost. That is why the Holy Trinity is fully revealed at Pentecost. Edited December 27, 2008 by salterrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 [indent]salterrae, Thank you for the info.[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='reyb' post='1735698' date='Dec 26 2008, 06:28 AM'][indent]If Apostle Paul said something like 'The Holy Trinity is God in mystery' then, this discussion will never even started and the entire Christianity will embrace the Holy Trinity as God or if he said something like 'Jesus is the Father himself but in human form' as in monotheistic view of oneness then there will be no Trinitarianism or any other theological views except monotheism of oneness Christians since all of you believe in this historical Jesus as the Christ. So the question is, Is Apostle Paul a believer of the Holy Trinity? Why he is ‘silent’ about it? You are correct, in that ‘silent’ the rock begins. [/indent][/quote] 'Silent' the rock begins? Okay, Yoda. Paul could have said, "The Holy Trinity is God in mystery," and then people would just disagree over what that means. He could have said, "God is three Persons in one essence," and we would disagree on what that means... and so on and so forth. No matter how clearly it is spelled out, I am sure you would find a reason to disagree. Satan existed with God in Heaven... Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden... yet they all rebelled against him. The problem is not with God or a lack of revelation from Paul or anyone else. The problem is our pride. Even at the Second Coming when Jesus appears before us face to face, many people will remain in their prideful and stubborn denial. So be it. [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1735705' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:47 AM'][i]Let's try again:[/i] [u]All you have to do is either say:[/u][/quote] [quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1735736' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:50 PM']What the hell is going on in this thread?[/quote] [quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1735753' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:51 PM']This is nauseating. ... So. Simple. This will be my last substantive post in this thread ...[/quote] I can't help but be amused I'm even coming to admire reyb's skillful ability to write countless sentences while saying absolutely nothing substantial. Some people manage this feat for a while because they're just plain ignorant, dumb, or immature; but reyb's been keeping this up for far too long. I think he's a genius. He must have an IQ of 160. He is quite gifted. I would recommend him as a speech writer for our next president. Edited December 27, 2008 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1736165' date='Dec 27 2008, 01:15 AM']'Silent' the rock begins? Okay, Yoda. Paul could have said, "The Holy Trinity is God in mystery," and then people would just disagree over what that means. He could have said, "God is three Persons in one essence," and we would disagree on what that means... and so on and so forth. No matter how clearly it is spelled out, I am sure you would find a reason to disagree. Satan existed with God in Heaven... Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden... yet they all rebelled against him. The problem is not with God or a lack of revelation from Paul or anyone else. The problem is our pride. Even at the Second Coming when Jesus appears before us face to face, many people will remain in their prideful and stubborn denial. So be it. I can't help but be amused I'm even coming to admire reyb's skillful ability to write countless sentences while saying absolutely nothing substantial. Some people manage this feat for a while because they're just plain ignorant, dumb, or immature; but reyb's been keeping this up for far too long. I think he's a genius. He must have an IQ of 160. He is quite gifted. I would recommend him as a speech writer for our next president.[/quote] [indent][indent]Vote for reyb!!! founder of reybianism!!! [/indent][/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1736165' date='Dec 27 2008, 01:15 AM']'Silent' the rock begins? Okay, Yoda. [color="#0000FF"]Paul could have said, "The Holy Trinity is God in mystery," and then people would just disagree over what that means.[/color] He could have said, "God is three Persons in one essence," and we would disagree on what that means... and so on and so forth. No matter how clearly it is spelled out, I am sure you would find a reason to disagree. Satan existed with God in Heaven... Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden... yet they all rebelled against him. The problem is not with God or a lack of revelation from Paul or anyone else. The problem is our pride. Even at the Second Coming when Jesus appears before us face to face, many people will remain in their prideful and stubborn denial. So be it. I can't help but be amused I'm even coming to admire reyb's skillful ability to write countless sentences while saying absolutely nothing substantial. Some people manage this feat for a while because they're just plain ignorant, dumb, or immature; but reyb's been keeping this up for far too long. I think he's a genius. He must have an IQ of 160. He is quite gifted. I would recommend him as a speech writer for our next president.[/quote] [indent]As I have said earlier, show me or give even a hint that Apostle Paul said "The Holy Trinity is God in mystery," and then, I will follow you. Again, holy prophets are christians (meaning they belong to Christ), do you think they are Trinitarians? [/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 [indent]Tertullian, (QUINTUS SEPTIMIUS FLORENS TERTULLIANUS), ecclesiastical writer in the second and third centuries, b. probably about 160 at Carthage, being the son of a centurion in the proconsular service….. ………. has the true formula for the Holy Trinity, tres Personae, una Substantia. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are numerically distinct, and each is God; they are of one substance, one state, and one power. So far the doctrine is accurately Nicene. ( From: [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm)"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm)[/url][/indent] --------------------------- [indent]Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, anglicised as Tertullian, (ca.160 – ca.220 AD)[1] was a prolific and controversial early Christian author, and the first to write Christian Latin literature. He also was a notable early Christian apologist and a polemicist against --what he branded as-- heresy. Tertullian was of Berber origin. However, when he approved innovation, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for coining the term Trinity (Latin trinitas) and giving the first exposition of the formula[2]. Other formulations that first appear in his work are "three Persons, one Substance" as the Latin "tres Personae, una Substantia" (itself from the Koine Greek "treis Hypostases, Homoousios"), and also the terms vetus testamentum ("old testament") and novum testamentum ("new testament"). Notably, some of Tertullian's innovation --"In not a few areas of theology..."-- was not acceptable to the Church (see below, Specific Teaching #3). In later life he became a Montanist and has been seen by some as the first Protestant[3]. (See [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian.)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian.)[/url][/indent] ------------------ [indent]Therefore, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is an original idea of Tertullian at around 160 – 220 AD that is, if the above writers/editors are correct. [/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1735656' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:41 AM'][indent] As I have said, it is possible that Apostle Paul did not refute this doctrine in all his letters because during his time this doctrine is not yet in existence. But if this doctrine is truly from God from the very beginning, even during the time of the prophets (although not yet revealed to them), then it is more likely that Apostle Paul will say something about it, otherwise he missed it. But in his (Apostle Paul) letter he said ‘Christ is the mystery of God’ while he is silent about the trinity. So, my question is…Is Apostle Paul a Trinitarian? [/indent][/quote] You have still not answered my question. CatherineM said something. You want to go with that as your argument? Where did you get the idea? You posited it as an argument against. Your wording was a clear interpretation. Stop dancing and answer where you get your interpretation. Your use of the word [i]possible[/i] indicates less likelihood of it not being a refutation than being one, and it merely reuses your unsupported interpretation. Support or withdraw. PS: You don't want to use CatherineM's argument. Going out of town, might be a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1736194' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:45 AM']As I have said earlier, show me or give even a hint that Apostle Paul said "The Holy Trinity is God in mystery," and then, I will follow you. Again, holy prophets are christians (meaning they belong to Christ), do you think they are Trinitarians?[/quote] Paul never said anything like that. [quote name='reyb' post='1736197' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:55 AM']Therefore, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is an original idea of Tertullian at around 160 – 220 AD that is, if the above writers/editors are correct.[/quote] Another example of bad logic. Tertullian being the one who created the term "Trinity" and the first to explain it doesn't mean he created the doctrine. He was explaining a doctrine that already existed. Read the first three verses of the Bible. [quote name='Winchester' post='1736209' date='Dec 27 2008, 09:39 AM']You have still not answered my question.[/quote] Reyb doesn't answer questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1736223' date='Dec 27 2008, 10:44 AM']Reyb doesn't answer questions.[/quote] ..., he writes novels. This has been an interesting thread...I'd contribute if I knew enough to do so. Edited December 27, 2008 by USAirwaysIHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses' Alt Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 See this is exactly why I didn't engage in Reyb's new threads when he came back, his old ones were fatigueing enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='Winchester' post='1736209' date='Dec 27 2008, 06:39 AM']PS: You don't want to use CatherineM's argument.[/quote] I was not making an argument. I was trying to be a smart aleck. Sorry if I stepped into your territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts