Burning Heretics At The Stake In 2008

[Galloglasses' Alt]

He was claiming witht he ability for instant communication which can be used to keep the Church in contact and united, the threat of Heretics, while serious, is not so serious that drastic measures such as burnings, (in preference, any kind of execution in my opinion should be quick), as in this day and age the technology allows us do so.

He was taking two examples, one current, (our current state of affairs), and one proposed, whereby society regresses back to what it was like in the dark ages, where executions of heretics is more plausible.

[CatherineM]

A 1000 years ago, if you just excommunicated a heretic, nothing kept him from still going town to town preaching and misleading the people. Today, when someone is excommunicated, the faithful on the other side of the planet can find out instantly.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1731540' date='Dec 18 2008, 11:58 PM']A 1000 years ago, if you just excommunicated a heretic, nothing kept him from still going town to town preaching and misleading the people. Today, when someone is excommunicated, the faithful on the other side of the planet can find out instantly.[/quote]

Depending on the region dioceses often kept records of silenced and excommunicated clergy.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='RandomProddy' post='1731550' date='Dec 18 2008, 04:04 PM']Depending on the region dioceses often kept records of silenced and excommunicated clergy.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
source?

[Hassan]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1731540' date='Dec 18 2008, 06:58 PM']A 1000 years ago, if you just excommunicated a heretic, nothing kept him from still going town to town preaching and misleading the people. Today, when someone is excommunicated, the faithful on the other side of the planet can find out instantly.[/quote]

I don't understand. In both scinarios the heretic and the Church have the same communication capacity (arguably in those times the Church had the better), simply because the communication today is faster does not change equations as they say. Now a heretic can send an e-mail advocating his views and the Church can send an e-mail warning the faithfull. Before a heretic could ride a horse to a neighboring town and preach his views and the Church could send a dispatch warning the faithfull.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1731554' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:05 AM']+J.M.J.+
source?[/quote]

I'd have to go to the cathedral to prove it and it's a long bike ride away!

..although there has been a list in operation in the anglican church of banned preachers, but for reasons of ecumenism i'm keeping some of the details witheld.

Edited December 18, 2008 by RandomProddy

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Fair enough.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='socalscout' post='1731303' date='Dec 18 2008, 01:28 PM']This is stemming from the Thomas More thread and I can see the logic of removing someone involved in the spiritual killings of others but can there be justification to burn someone at the stake ever especially in 2008?

Really, I'm not joking. If a small country in South America became a "Catholic State" much like many Muslim countries and started the old practice of trying and burning heretics at the stake would you be ok with it? Would the Holy See be ok with it? Would it be justifiable if all conditions were met?

Lets say it took them 10 years to try to persuade and dissuade the person from heresy and that person truly is guilty of leading people astray, but nothing could be resolved so they burned them at the stake.

Would you be ok with it? Would the Holy Father be ok with it? Is it justifiable?

I'm not trying to catch my fellow Catholics into admitting something that I beleive to be wrong but I am a bit surprised at the defense of it and would really like to know why.[/quote]

I would definitely not be Ok with it, I would be pretty upset if that ever happened, but I can't see it happening in this day and age. -Katie

[Socrates]

I say we wait until 2009 to burn 'em.

Come New Years we can have a big barbecue!

[Lena]

Let's go on a witch hunt while we're at it though I'm kidding! How ludicrous would it be to even think about burning someone on a stake?? It would never be justifiable, that's inhumane.

[dominicansoul]

i would much rather brown steaks with heretics rather than burn heretics at the stake...


...yum...steak........

[Guest]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1731412' date='Dec 18 2008, 04:37 PM']The heretics that were burned, what part did they not agree with the church on ? What was some of the stuff they were saying that led to them being killed ?[/quote]

no one has an answer to my question ?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1731558' date='Dec 18 2008, 07:08 PM']I don't understand. In both scinarios the heretic and the Church have the same communication capacity (arguably in those times the Church had the better), simply because the communication today is faster does not change equations as they say. Now a heretic can send an e-mail advocating his views and the Church can send an e-mail warning the faithfull. Before a heretic could ride a horse to a neighboring town and preach his views and the Church could send a dispatch warning the faithfull.[/quote]

In the Old Days, a person could say that he saw a dragon or a goblin and, given enough communication skills, could convince a whole village of the story. Today, precisely because of our advancements, people are far more skeptical. We all (by "all" I am generalizing) can read. We all have access to libraries and facts; we are all educated. In matters of faith and logic - the world of unseen truth - things can be twisted in fantastic ways. As previously pointed out, there was a time when it could take months or years for any given group of people to find out what the news was from the other side of the known "world". That time has passed. We can now immediately apply the principles of critical thought when any new story or idea is cooked up; we know very quickly when the Church supports or condemns such innovations.

Back then, heresy was by no means contained so easily. Most people were illiterate and uneducated, prone to rash and hasty judgment, had little - if any access - to information necessary for research, and had to wait for long periods of time to get word from Rome (or in some unfortunate cases, their own bishop). Heresy was and is like a spark. The difference between the threat of heresy then and the threat of heresy today is in the flammability of the kindling and the proximity to water.

[LouisvilleFan]

I'm not buying these arguments that heresy itself was punishable by death. I think it's got everything to do with the nature of monarchies and enforcing the king's authority, which included loyalty to the king's religion. If the king is Catholic, you are Catholic; if the king is Lutheran, you are Lutheran; if the king declares himself the head of the Church in your land, you obey the king as head of the Church in your land.

And, as I said before, this is why our ancestors left Europe Freedom of religion isn't just a nice idea that some folks came up with while brainstorming what kind of nation to found; it's the very thing they fought for and that we continue to fight for.

Edited December 19, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Didacus]

Way back in 93, when I told my friends I was heading for World Youth Day, they all asked me what I was going to do while visiting the pope (none the many of my friends were very religious).

I told them we were going to burn protestants in a great big fire!

Then they all wanted to come all the sudden.

Back to you Bob...