Celibacy

[puellapaschalis]

Right, I'm going to be very brave here, so no pointing and laughing, please

Celibacy - having relinquished the good of marriage for the greater good of remaining single for "the sake of the Kingdom."
Chastity - having a proper attitude to one's sexual nature, seeing it not as a integral but independent "feature" to be switched to one setting or another, but rather as that which enables one to relate to others in such a way that gives glory to God.

Source: PP's mental dictionary of Stuff One Should Have Straight In One's Head, 7th edition.

Chastity is an essential part of the Christian vocation (and generally not going crazy from one's hormones, libido, or the filthy-minded media doing its best to hold us hostage). Celibacy is not (otherwise we none of us would have survived the persecution of Christians in Roman times, martyred or no).

For those discerning vocations where celibacy is involved...bear with me, I'm trying to formulate this in something approaching a constructive way...[i]what do you understand by that?[/i] I'll join in if you all do

I suspect that people's approaches to this will vary quite dramatically according to each individual's sex. I also suspect that the depth of one's prayer life will have an impact. For all that, I'm just looking for input, so don't be shy - just prudent!

A few random thoughts in the hope it will kick off some reflection:
+ I am not a romantic. Tales of Jesus the Dashing, Wooing Hero sweeping one off one's feet make me retch. If it works for you, I'm very happy for you, although I'm far from convinced that Our Blessed Lord would even know how to play the violin, let alone serenade me below my window (besides which, it's quite nippy outside).

+ I am a [i]puella[/i]. Given that my stereotype of Proper Women casts them as romantics (see above), I have a vested interest in getting this sorted out. Which is where you lot all help out

+ Some approach discernment having had no intimate relationships; others have had such, to wildly differing extents. Virginity is physical as well as spiritual, and the virtue of preserving one's virginity (in either sense) and giving this to Christ is not disputed (apart from by people who just don't get it). What about those who have been intimate, either physically or "spiritually" (perhaps "emotionally" might be better)?

+ Please don't share anything you're uncomfortable sharing - this goes deep into our own personal relationship with our Saviour. And even if you are comfortable with it, double-check, if you will, to see if it's appropriate for Phatmass. And then check again. And pray. If it takes a while, that's fine. It's not like I have to sleep or anything

[CatherineM]

For all the years I was discerning, I basically protected myself from anything that I felt violated my chastity. I didn't watch movies or TV shows, or turned my head when subjected to something. I didn't read anything of that nature either. I didn't really date until my late 20's, and that was only when I felt ready to marry. I think I dated 18 months or so before getting hurt. I didn't date again until I met my husband and married at 43. Since I sheltered myself all those years, being married has really been eye-opening. I've allowed myself to watch movies I passed on 20+ years ago. Some make a lot more sense now.

[Guest]

Hmmm I was pretty inpure from about 17 on. Not really haveing sex alot but doing other things with the opposite sex that were immoral. I think I was sorta tricked by the if I dont have sex then im ok which is a big lie. Im 27 now and ive been celibet for about two years. I think im called to the single life and im content with this. I find a freedome in it and I dont worry about growing old and being lonely or things of that nature. As far as being pure I struggle with that big time and as a result I find myself in confession quite often.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Guest

[Maria Faustina]

Well, chastity in discerning a vocation has a lot to do with purity, but then it also is quite different. For me personally, I have struggled with the fact that I will never be able to physically hold hands, hug, or kiss my future Spouse. I guess due to the culture by which I am surrounded, I only thought love was something physical, but now I have truly realized how spiritual it can be. I constantly struggle with the media out there today that pervert love to be a disposable object that one can throw away when they are done using it. I have fallen completely in love with Jesus, and being a gentleman, He has treated me like a woman, and NOT an object, and I could not ask for more than Him

[MissyP89]

This is coming from someone who is almost certainly meant to be married...that is, unless Jesus grabs me by the hair and deposits me in front of a convent with neon signs saying "DO THIS!"

I'm in college, and one of the hardest things to do is be pure. I'm not just saying that; at this age, hormones the way they are and our peers all sleeping around, it's extremely difficult.

Marriage isn't all about sex. Sure, it plays a big part, but it isn't the entirely of the vocation, IMHO. It's also about serving God with someone else who is a lifelong partner, emotionally, spiritually and sexually.

I remain a Catholic because God has totally embraced me with His love. It still blows me away when I think of everything He's done for me in just under three years. He wants me to love Him back, and I do, with as much depth and honesty as I possibly can. I fail a lot at that, but I try to give back to Him as much as He's given me.

For a while, I thought that meant I had a vocation that would leave me undivided. After a lot of time praying on it and searching myself, though, I realized that He needs me to serve Him alongside someone else. For now, as I should, I live completely chaste, despite being in an intensely intimate emotional relationship for over two years now. I look at it as a teaching time from God. I love my other half for who he is, and how he lives for the Lord. Is there attraction? You bet. But, like in marriage, it's not all-consuming, and cannot be. Purity of heart has to be there long after looks and fertility fade.

[Giolla]

Celibacy is a huge issue, especially nowadays. I am celibate because I considering the priesthood (more or less that is what I want to do), but it really seems I'm the only virgin within my groups of friends or well even my family for that matter. I even get ridiculed because I don't masturbate (not that you guys need to know that but my lifestyle is not accepted in todays society). It seems that it is not cool to be inactive sexually. I am going to keep on doing what I'm doing regardless but the pressure is rough Oh and explicit images on regular TV don't help any either.

[VeniteAdoremus]

I've been asked to tell my vocation story quite a lot, and people (talking strictly non-Catholics here) are always most interested in how I dealt with boyfriends. Their main lines of thinking are more or less:

1. WTF mate! If you want to be a sister, how can you've had boyfriends, let alone red-blooded, non-Catholic boyfriends? Aren't all your nun-types neutered at birth?
2. Given that you've had boyfriends, how come you still want to be a sister?

The answer to both of these is that I tried to run from my vocation, but failed rather spectacularly come Easter. I couldn't fully live Easter and still fit my boyfriend in my head. That's how I found out I couldn't do divided, as MissyP89 put it so clearly.

The operative word in the above is [i]head[/i]. I heard myself using this word and thought "Shouldn't that be heart? Soul? Ovaries? Pick your favourite?" But no, it was head. I'm a brain girl. The best thing I have to give is my undivided attention, and the best thing someone can give me is a good puzzle. So for me the most important part of celibacy is not entering that deep emotional attachment where you want to fiddle someone out, and learn what makes them tick at all levels. And that can be hard - but it also frees you up.

Not very romantic, I know. (To those concerned: PP's little brother (also my big one) is very romantic. Makes money as a poet, etc.)

I suspect that not having a family, passing on genes, etc. might pop up in a decade or so. But at the moment, that's not much of a problem for me.

[puellapaschalis]

Thanks to everyone for their time and effort, but I was looking for some reflections on celibacy in particular, rather than chastity. My apologies if my original post wasn't clear

Edited December 17, 2008 by puellapaschalis

[Giolla]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1730219' date='Dec 17 2008, 03:56 AM']I've been asked to tell my vocation story quite a lot, and people (talking strictly non-Catholics here) are always most interested in how I dealt with boyfriends. Their main lines of thinking are more or less:

1. WTF mate! If you want to be a sister, how can you've had boyfriends, let alone red-blooded, non-Catholic boyfriends? Aren't all your nun-types neutered at birth?
2. Given that you've had boyfriends, how come you still want to be a sister?[/quote]

She could want to just reform her life

[toservelove]

Well. you raise some interesting things to ponder as an individual person and in the larger context of Church and relationship with God and neighbor. You sent me searching out some things, including what a puella was. The definition I found was "girl" but I think I'm missing some connotations there.

I am an american woman, older (40) than many phatmassers, and preparing to enter a contemplative community, so some of your questions I have also pondered, though maybe not quite in that way.

I understand your reactions about being overly romantic. I remember one woman who rolled her eyes heavenward, folded her hands in prayer, and intoned: "I am Betrothed." Let me just say, that was not the language I favored using. But I also didn't agree with one sister who said, "We don't really think of ourselves as brides of Christ anymore." To which I thought, well then, what's the point.

Then I heard a priest speak, and when he spoke of Jesus, it was on such an intimate and personal level, but for some reason did not strike me as romantic. He was very aware of Jesus as a human person. And as I pondered how to be that intimate with a person I could not see or touch, I asked a wise sister about it. Her response was, "You can't be intimate with Jesus until you can throw your arms around Him." I thought of the saints, who also were very intimate with God, but each in a unique way. I began to pray the chaplet of the Sacred Heart, which has 33 beads, one for each year of Jesus' life on earth. On each bead I'd try to picture Him at that age, growing up, and growing in wisdom and obedience. He became much more real to me, both in humanity and divinity.

What does that have to do with celibacy? Well, remember that marriage is a union of two into one. A man and woman who marry, become one person. In a way, the priest becomes "one" with the church. In a way, the brother, monk, nun, sister, becomes "one" with Christ. Both are a spiritual marriage. And both require a rightly ordered idea of sexuality. Physical sex in marriage is procreative and unitive. In a spiritual marriage, there is sexuality, because above all sexuality is about being fully male or fully female and thus fully human, but there is not physical sex. Your gift of sexuality and forbearance of physical sex is for creating a greater intimacy with God and neighbor. Instead of uniting to a man or woman, you try to unite more closely to God. And in uniting to God, you unite more closely to neighbor. And one way, at least for me, to unite more closely to God is to remember He is (not was) a person.

As for previous intimate relationships, well, that's what confession is for. What I regret is that in having been physically intimate or in reading or watching impure things, the memory is still there and always will be, but I can choose to dwell on those thoughts or turn to a higher thought.

I hope this helps you. I'm sure that if you continue asking God for direction and understanding on this, and if you continue to look for answers He will help you.

[she_who_is_not]

I think I'm going to echo the previous post a bit. Intimacy is NOT romantic. It involves vulnerability, honesty, and self-knowledge to be done properly. I think practicing celibacy requires real intimacy with God. You have to be willing to be open and honest about what you experience: mentally, emotionally, and physically. Our sexual nature is really a beautiful mystery and God understands it far more than I.
However, saying that, I really struggle to bring this subject up with God. In the heat of the moment it is easier just to forget, and in the harsh light of day to easy to ask forgiveness, mumble a prayer for purity and move on.
I think that real, practiced celibacy requires a rather frank discussion of these matters.
"Dear Lord, when I see so and so my so and so does/feels so and so." I think I tend to go the repression route. "Dear God, I didn't see anything and if I did I don't feel anything because I love you more" I think God knows we love him more. I think real practiced celibacy involves taking the intimacy up a notch. Being emotionally and spiritually naked in front of God and speaking from an attitude of wonder rather than shame.

[Ave Maria Totus Tuus]

First of all, this is truly a beautiful thread! Great questions and responses so far.

To answer on the first point about intimacy and romance of the celibate call:

I agree on intimacy and romance not being the same thing. I think initially in my discernment, things seemed very "romantic" in the way I saw our Lord calling me. And while of course the sense of He being my Beloved so deeply prevalent even now, the "romance" as has been described in the first post, in that human way, is just not the way it is for me, or for most it seems.

The sense of intimacy with Him sustains me well-beyond any emotional or romantic aspects of it. His gentle whisper. His Providence over my life. His reassurance of His power and kingship. And lest we forget, the vulnerability He shows us in the Holy Eucharist--more vulnerable than as a newborn in Bethlehem, more vulnerable than being naked on the cross at Calvary. It blows my mind, that He comes to all of us with such deep vulnerability and offering of intimacy!

I once read about a Dominican Sister describing her discernment and knowing she had a vocation, etc. It so deeply reflects my heart!:

"It wasn't like a voice from the sky. But it was an intense conviction of what I was made for."

An intense conviction--only a fruit of that intimacy He offers!

Edited December 17, 2008 by Ave Maria Totus Tuus

[puellapaschalis]

toservelove - great post, thank you