God And Hell And Free Choice

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1732435' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:52 AM']The patristic tradition says so.[/quote]

I don't see how that could be literally true as "destiny" is "a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency".

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1732434' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:51 PM']. . . those are my misspellings and not yours[/quote]
Yes, I know that those are your typographical errors.

[quote]sic (sĭk)
adv. Used to indicate that a quoted passage, especially one containing an error or unconventional spelling, has been retained in its original form or written intentionally.[/quote]

[mortify]

[quote name='Formosus' post='1732424' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:37 AM']The Baltimore Catechism is not a part of the Magisterium and I think on the level of the Baltimore Catechism Vs. the Fathers, the understanding of the Fathers wins hands down.[/quote]

Hmm...

I'm not so sure the Baltimore Catechism *doesn't* fall under Magisterial authority...

And where do you see a contradiction between the Catechism and the Fathers?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1732438' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:54 PM']I don't see how that could be literally true as "destiny" is "a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency".[/quote]
The doctrine of predestination in the Eastern Church was unaffected by the theories of St. Augustine. That said, for the Eastern Church predestination concerns human nature, not persons.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mortify' post='1732441' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:56 PM']Hmm...

I'm not so sure the Baltimore Catechism *doesn't* fall under Magisterial authority...

And where do you see a contradiction between the Catechism and the Fathers?[/quote]
The most that a conference of bishops can do is issue something that is considered to be "authentic."

[mortify]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1732437' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:53 AM']Yeah that's right, when the evidnece is against you attack the source. You should know that's no way to formulate an argument.[/quote]

What's the issue again? Hell being a place? If it is a place why is that a problem?

I was proving that the essence and chief pain of hell is the eternal separation from God, not the pains of sense which are caused by the [i]fire[/i].

Edited December 20, 2008 by mortify

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1732439' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:55 AM']Yes, I know that those are your typographical errors.[/quote]

I know what "sic" refers to. That was the point. Unlike a transcribed quoting in a paper we have a quote function here. Given the quote function it is unnecessary to signal "unusual" spellings as "sic" as they must be my words, not your incorrect transcribing of my words.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1732446' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:59 PM']I know what "sic" refers to. That was the point. Unlike a transcribed quoting in a paper we have a quote function here. Given the quote function it is unnecessary to signal "unusual" spellings as "sic" as they must be my words, not your incorrect transcribing of my words.[/quote]
Sic is used when the original quoted text has errors in it. It has nothing to do with errors in transcription.

[mortify]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1732444' date='Dec 20 2008, 02:59 AM']The most that a conference of bishops can do is issue something that is considered to be "authentic."[/quote]

But Bishops can exercise the Ordinary Magisterium, right? And they certainly have authority over their immediate jurisdictions... so it's hard for me to see the Baltimore Catechism, or any authoritative Catechism, as something we can disagree with at will.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mortify' post='1732449' date='Dec 20 2008, 12:03 AM']But Bishops can exercise the Ordinary Magisterium, right? And they certainly have authority over their immediate jurisdictions... so it's hard for me to see the Baltimore Catechism, or any authoritative Catechism, as something we can disagree with at will.[/quote]
All the bishops around the world are the "ordinary" Magisterium. The actions of an episcopal conference are merely conjoint, and so they are not protected by the charism of infallibility.

[Hassan]

[i]Byzantine theology : historical trends and doctrinal themes [/i]

BY Fr. Meyendorff

Would you recomend this Apotheun?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1732453' date='Dec 20 2008, 12:06 AM'][i]Byzantine theology : historical trends and doctrinal themes [/i]

BY Fr. Meyendorff

Would you recomend this Apotheun?[/quote]
That's a pretty good book overall. It's a good starter text. It is also available in excerpted form on the internet.

[mortify]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1732451' date='Dec 20 2008, 03:04 AM']All the bishops around the world are the "ordinary" Magisterium. The actions of an episcopal conference are merely conjoint, and so they are not protected by the charism of infallibility.[/quote]

So then it's correct to say the Baltimore Catechism possessed some Magisterial authority for the provinces the Bishops employed it in.

It may not be an infallible book, book it does contain numerous infallible doctrines.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1732455' date='Dec 20 2008, 03:07 AM']That's a pretty good book overall. It's a good starter text. It is also available in excerpted form on the internet.[/quote]

Thank You: )

I'll pick it up in the library tomorrow

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mortify' post='1732457' date='Dec 20 2008, 12:08 AM']So then it's correct to say the Baltimore Catechism possessed some Magisterial authority for the provinces the Bishops employed it in.

It may not be an infallible book, book it does contain numerous infallible doctrines.[/quote]
If it was unanimously approved by the U.S. Latin Rite bishops (i.e., back in the 19th century) it is endowed with the authority of the Roman Church's hierarchy in the United States.