Dark Night Of The Soul And Dryness Support Group

[tinytherese]

Thank you Philothea that does help.

[Guest dizzyspirit]

Hello Everyone,

I`m new to the group. I`ve been experiencing the dark night of the Soul for eight years. I was wondering if any of you have any practical advice on surviving the dark night. I sometimes wonder if there is anything anyone can really do for someone in the dark night other than give verbal encouragement. I`ve read everything I can find on the subject but it doesn`t seem to help much. Some advice here would be gratefully received.

Many Thanks

dizzyspirit

P.S. Thanks to dominicansoul for the welcome message.

[philothea]

[quote name='dizzyspirit' post='1736869' date='Dec 28 2008, 02:00 PM']I`m new to the group. I`ve been experiencing the dark night of the Soul for eight years. I was wondering if any of you have any practical advice on surviving the dark night. I sometimes wonder if there is anything anyone can really do for someone in the dark night other than give verbal encouragement. I`ve read everything I can find on the subject but it doesn`t seem to help much. Some advice here would be gratefully received.[/quote]
Would you feel comfortable elaborating on your experience a little?

In general, if you really are experiencing the Dark Night of Sense (the first one), the thing to do is remain faithful to prayer, but switch from discursive meditation to silent infused contemplation. After a relatively short while, that new mode of prayer should become sustaining and reasonably comfortable.

The book I recommended above: [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0898702631?ie=UTF8&tag=amberdine-20&link_code=as3&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=0898702631"]Fire Within[/url] by Fr. Thomas Dubay, is very helpful on the subject.

[Guest dizzyspirit]

Hi Philothea,

You asked me to elaborate on my experience.

I`m a 45 year old male from Shropshire, England. I am also a mental health patient with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It was because of the suffering involved with this that made me start reading Spiritual material in 1993. I also started meditating at the same time. I became fascinated with the stuff I was reading and lost interest in everything else in life, I`d been losing interest in things for a while anyway. In 2000 after 7 years of meditation practice I ended up in a mental hospital with a breakdown. It was in there that my dark night started. I began to start losing hope of getting anywhere Spiritually, the quick results that I expected from my Spiritual practice didn`t appear. I`ve been going downhill ever since. I know I`m not suffering with conventional depression because I`d experienced that on and off since my twenties, and to me the dark night is a different thing, although some of the symptoms are similar. With the dark night I feel I have completely outgrown the world and all its pastimes. I can`t imagine being interested in anything in the world again, and indeed would not want to have things back as they used to be.

In the last 2 years I have experienced guidance in the form of dreams, and also synchronicities ( meaningful coincidences). I have asked for guidance on my dark night and have been told to wait, I`ve also been told to bear it, and also to cling on.

I know you are supposed to put your trust in God and that it is not a good idea to ask how long you are going to have to put up with the dark night, but I feel that I cannot go on forever like this.

Unlike many others in the dark night I have never actually had any kind of Spiritual experience, or consolation, as I think St. John of the cross calls them. My guidance has also seemed to stop in the last 5 weeks as well. I was wondering if this is a normal thing to happen during the dark night.

Any advice I can get here would be very gratefully received. I would love to have an experience of God and would be indebted to anyone who could give me guidance on how to maximize the chance of this happening.

Could you elaborate on what silent infused contemplation is. Is it just sitting quietly in a receptive, prayerful state?

Many Thanks

dizzyspirit

[Lil Red]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1722057' date='Dec 7 2008, 07:58 PM']Thought that this thread would be helpful. Some us here need it. I'm going to talk to my parish priest when I go home for break but any advice from the phamily?[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
i just wanted to say that i've been going through dryness for awhile (my own fault, i haven't kept up with my prayer/Mass life). but last night at Mass, i was moved to tears by God. i can't explain what happened, it just 'hit' me what God allows me to participate in by bringing a child into this world.

[philothea]

General disclaimer: I'm nobody special, just a bossy person who reads a lot. Please defer to more expert advice whenever you can get it!

[quote name='dizzyspirit' post='1737611' date='Dec 29 2008, 10:02 AM'][snip] In 2000 after 7 years of meditation practice I ended up in a mental hospital with a breakdown. It was in there that my dark night started. I began to start losing hope of getting anywhere Spiritually, the quick results that I expected from my Spiritual practice didn`t appear. I`ve been going downhill ever since. I know I`m not suffering with conventional depression because I`d experienced that on and off since my twenties, and to me the dark night is a different thing, although some of the symptoms are similar. With the dark night I feel I have completely outgrown the world and all its pastimes. I can`t imagine being interested in anything in the world again, and indeed would not want to have things back as they used to be.[/quote]
Outgrowing the world and its pastimes sounds like excellent progress, but I understand your disappointment with not experiencing quick results. It seems to me that it's very easy to underestimate our imperfection, and how much we have to be purified and strengthened. I think it's generally a very long process, and progress seems to happen in spurts, with long lags in between. (I think, actually, that there's progress all along, but a lot of times we can't perceive it.)

[quote]In the last 2 years I have experienced guidance in the form of dreams, and also synchronicities ( meaningful coincidences). I have asked for guidance on my dark night and have been told to wait, I`ve also been told to bear it, and also to cling on.[/quote]
Seems reasonable.

[quote]I know you are supposed to put your trust in God and that it is not a good idea to ask how long you are going to have to put up with the dark night, but I feel that I cannot go on forever like this.

Unlike many others in the dark night I have never actually had any kind of Spiritual experience, or consolation, as I think St. John of the cross calls them. My guidance has also seemed to stop in the last 5 weeks as well. I was wondering if this is a normal thing to happen during the dark night.

Any advice I can get here would be very gratefully received. I would love to have an experience of God and would be indebted to anyone who could give me guidance on how to maximize the chance of this happening.[/quote]
Everyone is different, of course. I am sure you are being nudged toward [i]something[/i] but it is hard to be certain of what.

I notice that you list your religion as "interfaith" though... so you know I'm going to ask if you are or ever were (or ever considered) being Catholic?

[quote]Could you elaborate on what silent infused contemplation is. Is it just sitting quietly in a receptive, prayerful state?[/quote]

The Dark Night itself (the first one, anyway) occurs when a person who has been faithful to prayer, self-denial, and other good Christian practices, begins to experience an inability to discursively mediate. By "discursive mediation" I mean thinking through a particular concept, like reading a bit of scripture, reflecting on it, relating it to your life, and drawing some conclusions. This practice becomes difficult to impossible, though the person is still strongly inclined toward prayer.

Usually he or she becomes upset and despondent because they can't pray anymore like they're used to, and they'd been trying so hard! What is actually happening -- according to St. John of the Cross -- is that God is beginning to directly purify the soul through infused contemplation. Which means that it is time to sit in silence and apparent dryness, and quietly let God work. At first it seems dark and dry and unpleasant, because there is no sensory component to what is happening. However, it is sustaining and spiritually satisfying, and if that is the source of distress, the distress should be fairly swiftly relieved once the pray-er stops resisting.

So, yes, silent infused contemplation would involve sitting in a receptive, prayerful state, but is only appropriate if you [i]can't[/i] pray otherwise, and it turns out to be fruitful. There's no benefit in trying to shut down your own thoughts, like eastern religions do.

Chapter Eight [[url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.vii.viii.html"]link[/url]] and Nine [[url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.vii.ix.html"]link[/url]] of St John's [i]Dark Night[/i] are very helpful in explaining what the first Dark Night is and how to tell if you're experiencing it.

I hope this is in some small way helpful. Let me know if I can elaborate more. Gotta be some reason I read all this stuff.

And to Phatmass!

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1722057' date='Dec 7 2008, 10:58 PM']Thought that this thread would be helpful. Some us here need it. I'm going to talk to my parish priest when I go home for break but any advice from the phamily?[/quote]

I guess what I'm going through is akin to a dark night of the soul. Lots of doubts, questions, dryness, feeling upset and disturbed. I wish I had good advice but let us know what your priest says. God Bless! -Katie

[cmotherofpirl]

I always read these threads and wonder exactly what you are discussing. Should we expect feelings in relation to God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? Sorry for the long ramble, but reading the posts seems like such foreign territory to me. Is this spiritual dryness as you are feeling?

I have never had any emotional experience that I can remember involving God. I know he loves me because He says he does. Its sort of "Of course He loves me or He wouldn't have made me". When I look at the stars at night I get a feeling of an immense "Otherness", but that is not personal love. When I go to adoration, I know I am in His Presence, but its not an emotional thing, just reverence for the One who made both the universe and the platypus. I go to Church because God expects me to, and I say the Office because I said I would and I try to keep my promises. Since I know God is there, I talk to Him off and on all day, sort of a running commentary on how its going for me and the rest of the world. I point out things to the Saints in areas where I could use some help, and thank them kindly whether or not those areas improve. So I guess I don't get this great emotional dependence or highs and lows.
God didn't ask my emotional temperature or if I only wanted to obey Him when I am in the mood for it, so I don't think emotions should play into it at all. I don't have to like getting up and going to Mass, or care if the priest likes saying Mass, we are there because we are obedient to Him. Its our will that is important, not feelings. Feelings are transient by their very nature and should not be the basis of our spiritual life. Meanwhile we go to Mass, Confession and our daily routine whether God provides consolations or not. Even if it feels like we are going thru the motions or are wasting time we do it, because He expects it. Waiting for God to grant me joy is wasting the time He personally gave me to get His work done. I don't have to feel moved by the Spirit to do the work of the God.

I grew up with the "The Chronicles of Narnia" so I always remember these two quotes when it comes to obedience:

Jill responds, “Do you mean you think everything will come right if we do [obey Aslan].”
Puddleglum responds, “I don’t know about that. You see Aslan didn’t tell [us] what would happen. He only told us what to do. . . it may be the death of us. . . but that doesn’t let us off from obeying Aslan.”


I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia.

[philothea]

Heh, yeah, I'm not always sure what we're discussing either.

The term "Dark Night of the Soul" was coined by St. John of the Cross to describe a particular phase of prayer life where, without guidance, people often become confused and or despondent. However, it's not simple depression, dryness, or a bad experience, and it has nothing at all to do with emotions. The term "dark night" seems to be used a lot to describe just a prolonged period of spiritual difficulty, but that usage is incorrect.

St. Teresa of Avila talks about the same phase. It's the "Fourth Mansions" -- but she assumes people realize what is happening and go along with it without any trouble. Of course, she was never a confessor!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='philothea' post='1739001' date='Dec 30 2008, 03:45 PM']Heh, yeah, I'm not always sure what we're discussing either.

The term "Dark Night of the Soul" was coined by St. John of the Cross to describe a particular phase of prayer life where, without guidance, people often become confused and or despondent. However, it's not simple depression, dryness, or a bad experience, and it has nothing at all to do with emotions. The term "dark night" seems to be used a lot to describe just a prolonged period of spiritual difficulty, but that usage is incorrect.

St. Teresa of Avila talks about the same phase. It's the "Fourth Mansions" -- but she assumes people realize what is happening and go along with it without any trouble. Of course, she was never a confessor![/quote]
Ah. sometimes Wiki is useful:
While this crisis is presumed to be temporary in nature, it may be extended. The "dark night" of Saint Paul of the Cross in the 18th century lasted 45 years, from which he ultimately recovered. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, according to letters released in 2007, "may be the most extensive such case on record", lasting from 1948 almost up until her death in 1997, with only brief interludes of relief between [2]. Franciscan Friar Father Benedict Groeschel, a friend of Mother Teresa for a large part of her life, claims that "the darkness left" towards the end of her life [3].
The "dark night" might clinically or secularly be described as the letting go of one's ego as it holds back the psyche, thus making room for some form of transformation, perhaps in one's way of defining oneself or one's relationship to God. This interim period can be frightening, hence the perceived "darkness."
In the Christian tradition, one who has developed a strong prayer life and consistent devotion to God suddenly finds traditional prayer extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this "dark night." The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. In the most pronounced cases, belief is lost in the very existence of God and/or validity of religion, rendering the individual an atheist, even if they bravely continue with the outward expressions of faith.
Rather than resulting in devastation, however, the dark night is perceived by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstacy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in their practices of virtue, they in reality become more virtuous, as they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God.

So its like referring to "living thru Good Friday to get to Easter morning"? I've never had any emotional highs from religion, so its hard to understand it as a low. However, I do understand the doubt and questioning phase.

[philothea]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1739011' date='Dec 30 2008, 03:07 PM'][quote]
In the Christian tradition, one who has developed a strong prayer life and consistent devotion to God suddenly finds traditional prayer extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this "dark night." The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. In the most pronounced cases, belief is lost in the very existence of God and/or validity of religion, rendering the individual an atheist, even if they bravely continue with the outward expressions of faith.

Rather than resulting in devastation, however, the dark night is perceived by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstacy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in their practices of virtue, they in reality become more virtuous, as they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God.[/quote]
So its like referring to "living thru Good Friday to get to Easter morning"? I've never had any emotional highs from religion, so its hard to understand it as a low. However, I do understand the doubt and questioning phase.
[/quote]
I think the Wiki article is mostly accurate, though "they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God" is ridiculous -- no one at that stage has had ecstasies. What a person loses is the ability to meditate. By meditate I mean the ability to think logically about spiritual things and derive learning and satisfaction from those thoughts. At the same time there's no satisfaction in worldly things, and sometimes some other spiritual difficulties.

I'll post some quotes from St. John in another entry.

[philothea]

From [url="http://www.karmel.at/ics/john/dn.html"]The Dark Night[/url] by St. John of the Cross:

General description. (Book One, Ch 1.1)

[indent]Souls begin to enter this dark night when God, gradually drawing them out of the state of beginners (those who practice meditation on the spiritual road), begins to place them in the state of proficients (those who are already contemplatives), so that by passing through this state they might reach that of the perfect, which is the divine union of the soul with God.
[/indent]

John then explains some attributes of beginners, and in particular the imperfections which they typically have, which they are unable to free themselves of.

Speaking of beginners who begin to experience the first Dark Night: (Book One, Ch 8.3)

[indent]God does this after beginners have exercised themselves for a time in the way of virtue and have persevered in meditation and prayer. For it is through the delight and satisfaction they experience in prayer that they have become detached from worldly things and have gained some spiritual strength in God. This strength has helped them somewhat to restrain their appetites for creatures, and through it they will be able to suffer a little oppression and dryness without turning back. Consequently, it is at the time they are going about their spiritual exercises with delight and satisfaction, when in their opinion the sun of divine favor is shining most brightly on them, that God darkens all this light and closes the door and the spring of sweet spiritual water they were tasting as often and as long as they desired.[/indent]

Next, John gives some signs on how to tell if this is happening, rather than some other problem. (Book One, Ch 9)

[indent]Because these aridities may not proceed from the sensory night and purgation, but from sin and imperfection, or weakness and lukewarmness, or some bad humor or bodily indisposition, I will give some signs here for discerning whether the dryness is the result of this purgation or of one of these other defects. I find there are three principal signs for knowing this.

The first is that since [b]these souls do not get satisfaction or consolation from the things of God, they do not get any from creatures either[/b]. Since God puts a soul in this dark night in order to dry up and purge its sensory appetite, he does not allow it to find sweetness or delight in anything. Through this sign it can in all likelihood be inferred that this dryness and distaste is not the outcome of newly committed sins and imperfections. [...]

The second sign for the discernment of this purgation is that [b]the memory ordinarily turns to God solicitously and with painful care, and the soul thinks it is not serving God but turning back, because it is aware of this distaste for the things of God.[/b] Hence it is obvious that this aversion and dryness is not the fruit of laxity and tepidity, for lukewarm people do not care much for the things of God nor are they inwardly solicitous about them. [...]

The third sign for the discernment of this purgation of the senses is the[b] powerlessness, in spite of one's efforts, to meditate and make use of the imagination, the interior sense, as was one's previous custom[/b]. At this time God does not communicate himself through the senses as he did before, by means of the discursive analysis and synthesis of ideas, but begins to communicate himself through pure spirit by an act of simple contemplation in which there is no discursive succession of thought. The exterior and interior senses of the lower part of the soul cannot attain to this contemplation. As a result the imaginative power and phantasy can no longer rest in any consideration or find support in it.[/indent]

Finally, John explains what people are supposed to do when they are in this stage. (Book One, Ch 10.4)

[indent]The attitude necessary in the night of sense is to pay no attention to discursive meditation since this is not the time for it. They should allow the soul to remain in rest and quietude even though it may seem obvious to them that they are doing nothing and wasting time, and even though they think this disinclination to think about anything is due to their laxity. Through patience and perseverance in prayer, they will be doing a great deal without activity on their part. All that is required of them here is freedom of soul, that they liberate themselves from the impediment and fatigue of ideas and thoughts, and care not about thinking and meditating. They must be content simply with a loving and peaceful attentiveness to God, and live without the concern, without the effort, and without the desire to taste or feel him. All these desires disquiet the soul and distract it from the peaceful, quiet, and sweet idleness of the contemplation that is being communicated to it.
[/indent]

[tinytherese]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1738913' date='Dec 30 2008, 12:16 PM']I always read these threads and wonder exactly what you are discussing. Should we expect feelings in relation to God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? Sorry for the long ramble, but reading the posts seems like such foreign territory to me. Is this spiritual dryness as you are feeling?[/quote]

It's one of those things where you really don't understand it until you go through it yourself. No, I've never had estacies or a series of spiritual visions but my relationship with my Beloved Lord has drastically changed.

[Augustine of Hippo]

The bride beyond the darkened eastern skies,
awaits beneath the banners of countless stars.
How she looks on with gentle sight that cries,
in her certain joy of late that breaks the heart.
From whence the time all creation was born,
a covenent and promise they shall never part.

How small the passerby who bitterly weeps,
distraught by so profound and sublime a face.
Where lies exalted praise that seldom sleeps,
in dark nights of the soul for silent adoration.
The heart contained in neither time or space,
bind praying hands for purest contemplation.

She shames me by her humility in judgement,
made smaller in myself with every accusation.
Vanities pride becomes as a tattered garment,
woven by careless deeds of my own undoing.
This awakened conscience attains realization,
finding in light the dawn of the day renewing.

Loving woman content in chastity unspoiled,
tenderly speak to your depths of faith untold.
Tend to the world where sinners have toiled,
bring us mercy from the mothers broken son.
Return us as mended unto that heavenly fold,
where hosts and tireless saints rejoice as one.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Augustine of Hippo

[Augustine of Hippo]

[center]Come to me night of the burning horizons,
consume the apparent reasons of my being.
Unstable are the courses that lay before us,
serpentine hallows by the green meadows.

The cold falls make their steady complaint,
whispering in the mists with vile intentions.
The world has gone mad with pure delight,
every sensation a indictment of our honesty.

We search for love to balance the equation,
ready made peace in dark nights of the soul.
I am deceived by my deeper rationalizations,
confused so by profundity of dire simplicity.

Our thoughts bend with tears and rainbows,
looking through the looking glass in despair.
Now and again we are a strong gale blowing,
locating our sails in the star crossed heavens.

It is the circus and asylum that never sleeps,
dreaming with the fever of tepid trepidation.
Here are the archives of our hidden palaces,
the better nature of theories left unspoken.

On mountains and deserts for a moonlit sky,
let us now rest amidst the steppes of history.
Tell me the distance between joy and sorow,
that I might walk in the valley of tomorrows.[/center]

Edited December 31, 2008 by Augustine of Hippo