Info On The Rapture...

[the lumberjack]

I know that it will be hard, and I know we will discuss this thoroughly, but this is where I will post what I find about the Rapture and/or the Tribulation...

I will TRY my hardest to weed through any and all carp and objectionable material thats rough on some eyes...

love.

first off, a list

[b]The Contrasts Between the Rapture and the Second Coming[/b]

[quote][u][b]Rapture[/u][/b]

1  relates to the church
2  relates to God's heavenly people
3  Christ comes to the heavens (1 Th 4:17)
4  Christ comes for His people (2 Th 2:1; Jn 14:3)
5  opens the way for the man of sin
6  starts the Tribulation (2 Th 2:6f; Rev 4-5)
7  imminent
8  Enoch (saved from the flood)
9  Judgment Seat of Christ
10 mercy
11 a mystery (1 Cor 15:51)
12 Christ is the Morning Star (2 Pe 1:19; Rev 22:16)
13 the hope of His people at the end of the N.T.
the Morning Star precedes the sunrise

relay the next table to the same bullets in the table above

[b][u]Second Coming[/u][/b]

1  relates to Israel
2  relates to God's earthly people
3  Christ comes to the earth (Zec 14; etc.)
4  Christ comes with His people (Rev 19; Zec 14)
5  dooms the man of sin
6  ends the Tribulation (Rev 19)
7  marked by signs, days, etc.
8  Noah (saved through the flood)
9  Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats (Mt 25)
10 wrath
11 in-depth Old Testament teaching
12 Christ is the Sun of Righteousness (Mal 4:2)
13 the hope of His people at the end of the O.T.[/quote]

[mulls]

that's pretty cool.



#5, the man of sin, refers to the Antichrist, correct?

[the lumberjack]

yup...the whole Desecration of Desolation...the WHOLE shibbang

[Livin_the_MASS]

Lumber Jack do you beleive in the rapture???

[the lumberjack]

yes I do...and it MIGHT go a little something like this.

[b]RAPTURE[/b]

The instantaneous removal of God's people from the earth.

Matthew 24:31,40-41, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, John 14:1-3, 2 Thessalonians 2:3,6-7, 2 Thessalonians 2:5,9-10, Luke 21:34-36, Isaiah 26:19-21, Revelation 4:1-2

[b]SEVEN-YEAR PERIOD OF DANIEL BEGINS[/b]

Seven-year covenant or peace treaty with Israel is confirmed by the Antichrist. Daniel 9:27
Antichrist is revealed. 1st Seal - White Horseman 2 Thessalonians 2:3,6-7, Daniel 11:36 Revelation 6:1-2
Rebuilding of the Third Temple in Jerusalem -Daniel 9:27
False Prophet is revealed. Revelation 13:11, Matthew 24:11
Miracles of the False Prophet cause deception amongst the people of the world. Revelation 11:13-14, Matthew 24:24
War - 2nd Seal - Revelation 6:3-4, Matthew 24:6
Mark of the Beast is required on all people to buy or sell. This signifies worship of the Beast. Revelation 11:16-18
Famine - 3rd Seal - Revelation 6:5-6, Matthew 24:7
Resurrection of the Beast/Antichrist after a fatal wound. Revelation 11:12
Two witnesses of God prophesy against the Antichrist causing drought and plagues to come upon the earth. Revelation 11:3-6
TRIBULATION MIDPOINT (3 1/2 years after the peace treaty with Israel)

Breaking of the covenant with Israel by the Antichrist. Daniel 9:27
Abomination of Desolation - The image of the Antichrist is placed in the temple at Jerusalem and given breath by the False Prophet. Daniel 9:27,11:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Matthew 24:15
GREAT TRIBULATION

Persecutions of Christians Begins - Matthew 24:21-22, Revelation 13:5-7
Death - 4th Seal - One-fourth of the world's population (new Christians and Jews) are killed by the Antichrist/Beast with the sword and with starvation. None can buy without taking the mark of the Beast. - Revelation 6:7-8
Martyrs of the Tribulation period cry out to the Lord. - 5th Seal - Revelation 6:9-11, 2 Timothy 3:12, Daniel 7:25
Signs in the Sky - 6th Seal - (Great Earthquake, Bloody Moon, Blackout of the Sun #1, Meteors falling, Mountains and Islands moving, Sky splits apart) Revelation 6:12-14, Matthew 24:29, Joel 2:30-31, 3:14-16
144,000 of the tribe of Israel are sealed - Revelation 7:2-4
Martyrs that came out of the Great Tribulation stand before God - Revelation 7:9-17
[b]DAY OF THE LORD[/b]

7th Seal - Trumpet Judgments of the Wrath of God - Revelation 8:1,6
1st Trumpet - Hail and Fire Destruction of all the grass and 1/3 of trees. Revelation 8:7
2nd Trumpet - Meteor falls into the Ocean destroying 1/3 of ships and sea life. Revelation 8:8-9
3rd Trumpet -Wormwood falls from the Heavens causing fresh water to become bitter. Revelation 8:10-11
4th Trumpet - Darkening of a third of the sun, moon, and stars. Revelation 8:12, Joel 3:13
5th Trumpet - Locusts from the Bottomless Pit and Blackout of the Sun #2. Revelation 9:1-10
6th Trumpet - Eastern army of 200,000,000 men kill 1/3 of mankind. Revelation 9:13-19

Death of the Two Witnesses. Revelation 11:7-10
Resurrection of the Two Witnesses on the Third day occurring in view of the World. Revelation 11:11-12
Earthquake strikes Jerusalem destroying 1/10 of the city - Revelation 11:13

7th Trumpet - Consists of seven Bowl Judgements of the Wrath of God.

1st Bowl - Sores on men with the Mark of the Beast. Revelation 16:2
2nd Bowl - All creatures in the sea die. Revelation 16:3
3rd Bowl - Rivers and Springs become blood. Revelation 16:4
4th Bowl - Sun scorches the earth. Revelation 16:8-9
5th Bowl - Kingdom of the Antichrist/Beast becomes full of darkness. Revelation 16:10-11
6th Bowl - Euphrates river dries up allowing the Chinese army to move to Armageddon. Revelation 16:12
7th Bowl - Greatest earthquake ever, Spiritual Babylon and/or Rome is destroyed. Revelation 16:17-19, Jeremiah 51:24,26

[b]ARMAGEDDON[/b]

Gathering of the Antichrist, kings and, armies of the world. Zechariah 14:2-5,
Revelation 16:13-14,16, Revelation 19:19, Daniel 11:40-45

Final Conquest and Plundering of Jerusalem. Joel 3:2,12, Zechariah 14:2,3

[b]SECOND COMING OF THE MESSIAH[/b]

Second Coming - Revelation 19:11, Zechariah 14:3-5
Beast and False Prophet thrown into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 19:20-21
Destruction of the armies by the word of God. Revelation 20:15,21, Zechariah 12:98, 14:2-5,12

[b]MILLENNIUM[/b]

Christ rules on Earth.

Satan bound in the abyss for 1000 years. Revelation 20:2-3

Satan released to make war for the last time. Revelation 20:7-9

Satan thrown into the Lake of Fire forever. Revelation 20:10

[b]GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT[/b]

Judgment of Nations Revelation 20:11-15

[b]NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH[/b]
Revelation 21:1-2,12-14

love.

[the lumberjack]

here's a little something on the early church history of eschatology...

[url="http://www.biblefood.com/raphist.html"]http://www.biblefood.com/raphist.html[/url]

hope it helps a little bit...

love.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 14 2004, 01:56 AM'] here's a little something on the early church history of eschatology...

[url="http://www.biblefood.com/raphist.html"]http://www.biblefood.com/raphist.html[/url]

hope it helps a little bit...

love. [/quote]
No Church Father taught the pre-mill. rapture. That article is misleading.

[Laudate_Dominum]

And don't get me wrong. I think it's a neat idea. I just don't think it's true or all that important. End times speculation is something of a waste of time in my opinion so I'm just not that passionate about arguing over it.
Peace.

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Mar 14 2004, 08:12 AM'] No Church Father taught the pre-mill. rapture. That article is misleading. [/quote]
[quote]The early church fathers hardly even mentioned eschatology because there was no land of Israel for an Antichrist to make a 7 year peace pact with, and no Israel for Jesus to sit on the throne of and rule for 1000 years! All eschatology passages, Old and New Testament, were "spiritualized" to apply to the Church. Even the great Bible student and expositor E. W. Bullinger, and James Strong, who spent his whole life writing Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, both believed in the Amillennial position.[/quote]

could this be why?

I'll ask you too....


If the Rapture happens at the same time as the Second Coming, who will populate the Millennium?

(We know that at the Rapture all believers are taken to be with Christ and reign over the earth
We know that at the Second Coming all unbelievers are cast into the eternal fire (Mt 25:41) )

If all believers are taken to be with Christ and all unbelievers are sent to the fire, who will enter the kingdom?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote]If all believers are taken to be with Christ and all unbelievers are sent to the fire, who will enter the kingdom? [/quote]
Is this a trick question? Um... the Jehovas Witnesses?? j/k
If Christ is the King seated on the throne and His kingdom is heaven, etc.. how is being "with Christ" seperate from being in His kingdom?
Sorry, if I'm not responding that well. Honestly I'm just not very interested in apocalyptic speculation. It's not that I'm against being taken up in the sky to be with Christ, but from what I've seen the case for the rapture is not very compelling. I figure I'll just wait and see how it all goes down.

[Livin_the_MASS]

Lumberjack take this into consideration! Mattew 13: 36-43.
[quote]Then, dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples approached him and said, Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.* He said in reply, He who sows good seed is the Son of Man*the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, *and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned {up} with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.*[u]The Son Of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of thier Father. WHOEVER HAS EAR OUGHT TO HEAR>[/u][/quote]

Read this real close what is it saying. Well when the time comes for people to be taken, we will want to be the ones left behind. His angles come for the evildoes to throw them in the fiery furnace.

Food for Thought!!! :thumb:

[cmotherofpirl]

...in 1830, a Scottish visionary, who belonged to a sect known as the Irvingites, claimed while in a trance that the rapture would occur before the period of persecution. This position, now known as the "pre-tribulational" view, also was embraced by John Nelson Darby, an early leader of a Fundamentalist movement that became known as Dispensationalism. Darby’s pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the pre-tribulational view, even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history.

Eventually, a third position developed, known as the "mid-tribulational" view, which claims that the rapture will occur during the middle of the tribulation. Finally, a fourth view developed that claims that there will not be a single rapture where all believers are gathered to Christ, but that there will be a series of mini-raptures that occur at different times with respect to the tribulation.

This confusion has caused the movement to split into bitterly opposed camps.

The problem with all of the positions (except the historic, post-tribulational view, which was accepted by all Christians, including non-premillennialists) is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).


What’s the Catholic Position?



As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).


Spinning Wheels?



Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

from Catholic Answers

Edited March 14, 2004 by cmotherofpirl