Pro Choice

[Guest nvzbl]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1718356' date='Dec 3 2008, 10:51 PM']Peace to you bro,
Off topic but I dont know how you can claim to love God but hate religion ? God is religion and religion is God. The catholic religion is the true religion of God. There is even scripture on it in the new testement talking about how religion is from God. Godbless[/quote]

I dont hate religion. I hate certain things about religion. And to be even more specific I hate certain things that some people believe by claiming their religion supports it. (Not specifically Catholicism) I think their should be more freedom in what people personally believe others to be without being considered sacrilegious. I dont believe religion should be about being forced to believe anything. I believe in the art of Christs awakening.

[mcts]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1718363' date='Dec 3 2008, 11:56 PM']I dont hate religion. I hate certain things about religion. And to be even more specific I hate certain things that some people believe by claiming their religion supports it. (Not specifically Catholicism) I think their should be more freedom in what people personally believe others to be without being considered sacrilegious. I dont believe religion should be about being forced to believe anything. I believe in the art of Christs awakening.[/quote]


we're not FORCED to believe anything. I could decide tomorrow to become Jewish. I have that freedom. I have CHOSEN that I believe what the Catholic church teaches, and therefore, I support what the church supports, I am against what the church is against, and I do what the church tells me to do because I believe that that is the way to get to heaven. If there was anything that I didn't believe about the Catholic church, I'm sure I could find another church that would fit what i believed. We all have this opportunity, at least in america.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='XIX' post='1718300' date='Dec 3 2008, 09:17 PM']Ironically, you proved mine about assertions without any supporting arguments.[/quote]
You [i]really[/i] missed my point. It was a satire. It wasn't intended to be a real argument. The way I go around harping on people around here for their lack of logical arguments, you think I'd really make a real argument like that?

[Guest nvzbl]

I guess different people have different ideas on the teachings of The Catholic Church. Its proven here everyday.

[Guest]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1718363' date='Dec 3 2008, 11:56 PM']I dont hate religion. I hate certain things about religion. And to be even more specific I hate certain things that some people believe by claiming their religion supports it. (Not specifically Catholicism) I think their should be more freedom in what people personally believe others to be without being considered sacrilegious. I dont believe religion should be about being forced to believe anything. I believe in the art of Christs awakening.[/quote]

I see what you are saying, false religion is a terrible and hatefull thing sometimes. And then you have alot of the preachers on t.v. claiming to love Jesus but at the same time saying they "hate religon" which I think is a code for I hate the Catholic Church and its authority.
Anyway found that scripture bro, here it is :

1 Timothy 6

3 " Whoever teaches something different and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the [font="Arial Black"]religious[/font] teaching is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid disposition for arguments and verbal disputes.
From these come envy, rivalry, insults, evil suspicions, and mutual friction among people with corrupted minds, who are deprived of the truth, supposing [font="Arial Black"]religion[/font] to be a means of gain.

It then goes on to talk about how some who are deprived of religion (again referring to religion as a good thing) use it as a means of gain and wealth. and how how the love of money is evil and you cant take anything with you when you go.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[jmjtina]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1718350' date='Dec 3 2008, 10:44 PM']I dont believe in abortion. [/quote]

The only personal beliefs that are dangerous are the ones that involve pure injustice; like the ones that crush innocent baby skulls and dismember the bodies of innocent babies. Those are unborn babies in the womb who will get their brains sucked out due to your lack of knowledge of what abortion is, what abortion does to the mother, and the killing of the unborn child. You'd keep in mind that love is more than warm fuzzies and sugar coating the reality of the "pro-choice" movement, but making them aware of what abortion truly entails. That means protecting the mother as much as the baby.

True love demands commitment, self-sacrifice and speaking up against injustice. An injustice you fail to see, acknowledge or speak up against.

You talk about love, but in reality, you have no idea what love is if it means watching a person be victimized because of a "choice" that involves murder.

BTW, having different "ideas" on any religion isn't the same as the objective truth about a religion. Misconceptions abound about the Catholic Church.

[reyb]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1718290' date='Dec 3 2008, 10:12 PM']I dont think the issue is what is best for the couple. I think they have more options than they realize. I think those options should be made available. I dont think abortion is EVER whats best.[/quote]
[indent]Read it again. I said the issue is ---freedom to choose...as against Moral Theology. It means if this law passed in congress they have this 'option'.

Actually this kind of law is very hard to explain especially to religious circle because usually, governmental laws are created for those who break the rules of morality – meaning, religion and government are at the same side. But sometimes, morality issue is defeated because of ‘reality’ issues as in the case of ‘Divorce Law’. In Catholics this is not acceptable but because of the reality of relation between husband and wife that sometimes they cannot live together without a fight – therefore, their ‘freedom to choose for themselves’ was given by the government known as ‘Divorce Law’.

But this word of a priest in CNSNews.com (see [post="1706287"]Possible Ex-communication [/post]by cmotherofpril) is something he has to prove to these people who will voted or approved this bill to wit;

[indent]Fr. Frank Pavone of the Priests for Life told CNSNews.com: “Any legislator who would vote for such an extreme piece of pro-abortion legislation [FOCA], and any executive who would sign it or judge who would uphold it, or even a citizen who would lobby in any way in favor of it, would be committing a serious sin, objectively speaking. It is cooperation with evil in a totally unjustified way.”[/indent]

Is it a ‘serious sin and cooperation with evil’ against God if I am a pro-choice? Or it is a just serious sin and cooperation with evil only in the eyes of the Catholics (espcially priest and bishops). [/indent]

[Guest nvzbl]

(quote)and any executive who would sign it or judge who would uphold it, or even a citizen who would lobby in any way in favor of it, would be committing a serious sin, objectively speaking.(unquote)
I dont believe in abortion.

[Servus_Mariae]

Why do you not believe in abortion?

[Guest nvzbl]

Common sense.

[Didacus]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1717466' date='Dec 3 2008, 02:42 PM']I dont think anybody who looks at abortion looks at it as a 'good' thing.[/quote]


[quote name='Paddington' post='1717473' date='Dec 3 2008, 02:46 PM']There are people who admit they like abortion and more who won't admit it.[/quote]


Everyone likes the idea of having a 'way out' but not everyone likes the means being provided.

for my part, I say let everyone live the consequences of their choices, and let not the innocent bare the brunt of our errors.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1718182' date='Dec 3 2008, 09:04 PM']I know the point of your question, but it's still a red herring. You are trying to stir up emotion as means of making an argument, and the analogy doesn't fit in this case. You're trying to make me "question" my logic, because why would I be for killing a toddler? You can't prove an unborn fetus is a person without invoking the belief in a soul. If the fetus isn't a person but only has the potential, then it's not "killing," it would be ending a potential. I don't necessarily believe that, but there are multiple facets, besides your own beliefs, about personhood.[/quote]

Personhood isn't subjective, it's objective. That's my point. I'm not trying to stir emotion, I'm saying that someone shouldn't be able to kill a human being simply because THEY THEMSELVES don't believe their victim is a person. Conception is the only logical time personhood can be established, because nothing is created at birth- the newborn baby is exactly the same baby it was 9 month in the womb.

[Servus_Mariae]

[quote]Common sense[/quote]

What does your common sense tell you? Why is it wrong?

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='nvzbl' post='1718156' date='Dec 3 2008, 09:43 PM']I'm sorry, but I think you might be a little confused.[/quote]

if i were so confused, so is winchester and a whole lot of other smart people.

if we're so confused, you'd be engage us and point out how we're confused. not respond with short sentences that address nothing.

i think you know you're feigning ignorance andor you're a coward andor you are the one who is confused.

[dairygirl4u2c]

when everyone is pointing out your lack of debate, etc, and you're the one who is insisting that you're fine... who is more likely than not the one who is wrong?

even if you're position is right, you're totally wrong in your approach.
it makes you look foolish andor confused