My Mother Mary And Me?

[the_rev]

Right now I'm reading "True devotion to Mary"

It talks about all our devotions to Mary, and descibes mroe what the church teaches.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 14 2004, 05:25 PM']i appreciate that blazer






and for the record i did make the disclaimer that i didnt want to offend anyone by posting in this thread....that's why i offered bro adam to continue this privately. not trying to start a war here, but i'm also not going to concede anything that i don't agree with.


besides, this thread should be about bro. adam and what he is dealing with right now. we all want whats best for him, as God sees fit.[/quote]
cool. sorry mulls, I guess I got carried away. I'll keep in mind that you aren't looking for a war. I guess I missed that part.
peace.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Brother Adam,

Here is my central point without all the supporting content which ruffled people's feathers:

The essence of historical Christianity is not inherently opposed to the communion of Saints and of devotion to Mary, but on the contrary understands it naturally. The question to ask is why does protestantism tend to oppose these things? Why does the protestant conception of reality see God and Mary, or God and the Saints, as necessarily in competition?

It would bother me if I thought that all the great Saints and so many great Fathers of the Church, men from whom we've inhereted the doctrine of the Trinity, men who stamped out the great heresies, were all commiting a terrible sin by loving Mary so much and praying to her. Even Martin Luther had devotion to Mary. When did Christians reject devotion to Mary? What were the discernable causes of this transition within certain branches of Christianity?

I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm just proposing questions which may help in discerning your way through these matters.

[willguy]

Something rather off-topic but also rather fitting-

One thing that strikes me about this board (Phatmass) is the love that exists among people that disagree. In other Christian boards that I have been at, the discussioin may start calm, but it usually escalates. Usually, no one steps in, and it just turns into one big bash-fest. Here, it seems that people are much more willing to admit when they're wrong and come back down.

Just my $.02

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

[Brother Adam]

Thank you L_D. And thank you Mulls. And everyone else.

You've given me what I need. I just need time now to sort it out on my own.

[mom25angels]

Hello, Brother. I had read your post earlier and while reading a Lenten devotional from the Contemplative Sisters of the Community of St.John I came across this quote that made me think of you

When conquered, temptation affords an opportunity for holiness to increase.
Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

God Bless You and His Mother, too.
Sarah

[Good Friday]

Bro. Adam, remember that those who are dead to us may be alive in Christ, and that this certainly must be the case with Mary. Thus, you are not conjuring the dead, but speaking to someone who is very much alive -- asking her to pray for you, and nothing more, the same way you might ask your pastor to pray for you. Except that this is not your pastor, this is the woman who, 2,000 years ago, said "yes" to God on behalf of all humanity -- she said yes, cancelling the "no" that Eve spoke. Later, Christ would say "yes" to the Father, cancelling Adam's "no" and freeing us from Original Sin.

I know you've heard this all before. I know you also know that the Letter of St. James says that the prayers of a righteous person are very efficacious (I'm paraphrasing). I fail to see how asking for the prayers of inarguably the most righteous human being -- besides Christ, of course, who was fully God and fully man -- could be sinful, if asking your pastor for prayers is [i]not[/i] sinful.

I have always failed to understand it, even as a Protestant. I've never been able to understand what's so wrong with asking Mary, or the other saints, to pray for us when one can walk right up to one's pastor and ask him for prayers. I don't see the difference, except that those who are in Heaven are already perfected and thus much more righteous than anyone's pastor.

All I know is that I would be a neo-pagan today if it were not for the prayers of Our Lady and St. Mary Magdalene. Ultimately, it was God who answered and dragged me, kicking and screaming, out of neo-paganism. But they were praying for me, they were the ones who said, "Hey God, help him," when I wouldn't even ask for help -- just like one's earthly mother might pray for a person his entire life, and that person may be converted later on (as was the case with St. Augustine and St. Monica).

But I can say with certainty that I would still be bowing down and worshipping pagan gods if it were not for the prayers of the Blessed Virgin and St. Mary Magdalene. That's just personal experience, and not any kind of proof, but I thought it may help you.

[mulls]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='Mar 14 2004, 10:20 PM'] Actually, I only posted once, and I don't believe what I said to be derogatory or condescending. I was merely pointing out how mulls seems to be approaching the idea of the Rosary with a preset bias that it is wrong to pray the Rosary, rather than what he calls "balance."

I am not condemning him, nor am I trying to be condescending. I was merely pointing out what I believe his direction to be. Catholics also approach their belief in the Rosary with a preset bias as well, insofar as most find no difficulty in praying the Rosary. Therefore, in that sense, neither one of us can be completely "balanced" in our representation of the Rosary.

Again, just my .02
 
God Bless [/quote]
he was speaking to theotekos, i think, not sure.



and what do you mean by preset bias?


the fact that i don't agree with this stuff and everyone else on this thread does is balance.

Edited March 15, 2004 by mulls

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 14 2004, 09:34 PM'] the fact that i don't agree with this stuff and everyone else on this thread does is balance. [/quote]
I've been thinking about everything and I just wanted to tell you that I truly appreciate your feedback and the fact that you are willing to speak up for what you believe despite the fact that it may be the underdog view on these boards. I really do apologize to you (and the others who may have been upset by my posts) if my rashness and lack of sensitivity have caused offense or bitterness.
Peace of Christ.

Edited March 15, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[mulls]

amen L.D.


thanks for your appreciation, trust me you haven't offended me in the least bit. if i didn't expect people to disagree with what i said than i would have no reason for being here.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 14 2004, 09:34 PM'] he was speaking to theotekos, i think, not sure.



and what do you mean by preset bias?


the fact that i don't agree with this stuff and everyone else on this thread does is balance. [/quote]
Alright, confusion settled. I deleted the post as I thought he was talking about me.

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm not joining in on the debate hubbub here. I just wanted to say Brother Adam I think your story is really awesome.

I pray to God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But I always also ask my friends to pray for me. On earth and in heaven. Coz in heaven they aren't inactive and dead. They're more alive than we are! The mysteries of the rosary that we meditate on also in fact come from the bible, too.

I'm a cradle Catholic but lemme tellya the rosary really makes things happen. Like the planets moving. It's amazing.

Anyway I pray that God grant you peace and guidance on your spiritual journey.

[marielapin]

Bro. Adam, that's an awesome story.

I know two people personally who used the Rosary, among other things, to help combat and defeat grave sins against purity.

Jesus and Mary are amazing examples when it comes to purity. I used to put a picture of the Divine Mercy next to my bed and next to my computer when I was in school. I also kept a blessed Rosary with me at all times and had another one under my pillow. When certain temptations started to present themselves, all I would have to do was look at Jesus in the image of Divine Mercy and/or pull out my Rosary and start praying, and I would avoid that occasion to sin.

[the lumberjack]

here's my two cents...which I hope don't get tossed back...hehehe

when John fell before the angel that was his guide in Revelation, he was going to worship the angel for what he (John) has seen... what did the angel say?

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

so not even the angels themselves could take worship...even it if were meant for God?

hmmm....