My Mother Mary And Me?

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Mar 13 2004, 04:52 PM'] It reminds me of that scene from the Passion! [/quote]
lol thats odd. i haven't seen the passion yet.

[the_rev]

God truly does work miracles like these!

Today I saw the Passion for the first time, and I prayed all 4 mysteries of the rosary, and 4 divine mercy chaplets. I feel so peaceful, and I have struggled I believe with the same sin, I actually committed it last night. But you know, I picked up a few spiritual reading books, read a little from each, and realized this morning when I woke up, that I was at peace, I didn't even think about it, which made me glad. And viewing the Passion for the first time, it makes you think, why must I do these things and scourage him more, pound the nail harder, etc. Today, being day 1, is great, and actually I gotta go do my spiritual reading which I'm gonna try to do everyday now!

Anyways,

Pray
Hope
and
Don't Worry

[mulls]

Bro, another thing to add to my last post...



you figured that if all of this was from the devil, he would have done harm to himself by alowing you to be free from this sin, right?


but if in fact it is from the devil, now he's got you believing in spritual stuff that's not of God.


what's worse.... acknowledging a sin, knowing it's wrong, and doing your best with God's help to become free of it?


or being free from a sin, but believing in and working with spirits other than that of God, without knowing any better?

[Brother Adam]

[quote]remember, satan tries to come as an angel of LIGHT. whatever he can use to his advantage, he will.[/quote]

Mulls,

Believe me, I appreciate the balance that you bring to the conversation more than you can guess! Thank you. I understand our Catholic friends will be excited, but that doesn't make it any easier on me, at least right now! I can't share in the excitement the same way they can. Glory be to God though that I don't struggle with this sin. So even if Satan tried to get me to say the rosary for evil intent, it has actually worked out for good.


[quote]just look how many religions there are. most devout followers of religions consider themselves blessed and fulfilled and living the proper life. for example, the Nation of Islam promotes abstinence from things most would consider sinful, things that have people in bondage. once these people join, and do away with their obsessions and problems, do you think they have been drawn any closer to the Lord?[/quote]

Please understand, experiencing the supernatural, debating, studing, research, scripture reading, and even prayer alone could not get me to budge in any way on my convictions. Not to neglect any of that though. But it would take a great sense of peace and calling for me to change my beliefs on something. I don't have a peace about this right now. It may be because what I did was "wrong", or it may be that it has all happened quite quickly and I need time to digest it more before I will recieve peace about it.

I would hope all of these standards would be held by everyone when considering our beliefs. I don't believe that God would give us peace in our souls if He wasn't leading us and we were following after Satan.

[quote]the devil can use good things for bad purposes.  for example, you would think that being 'blessed' with money would indeed be nothing more than a blessing, but i wonder how many have been led to destruction due to wealth?[/quote]

I'm trying to understand here, but I really think this is an "apples" and "oranges" situation. But my question here is, how has Satan used something good for evil if you were examining my experience?

[quote]we can misinterpret what is good and bad, right and wrong. the devil is a DECEIVER.[/quote]

Which is why I am following the scriptural mandate to study this and see if it is a bad thing or good. But I think we both agree God would not leave us in chaos, and allow us to come to a right conclusion if we are allowing Him to fully guide us, no matter where it took us.

[quote]it all matters what's from GOD or not. if something is not from GOD, it needs to be done away with, run away from, whatever the case may be. if it's spiritual and not from God, there's only one other source, right?[/quote]

I agree, if this isn't from God, I pray He will not give me peace about it, and show me why these doors seem to be open, when in fact, they are closed.

Thank you again mulls, I do appreciate your input.



And thank you everyone else. I will continue to pray about this.

God Bless,
Bro. Adam

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 13 2004, 08:56 PM'] Bro, another thing to add to my last post...



you figured that if all of this was from the devil, he would have done harm to himself by alowing you to be free from this sin, right?


but if in fact it is from the devil, now he's got you believing in spritual stuff that's not of God.


what's worse.... acknowledging a sin, knowing it's wrong, and doing your best with God's help to become free of it?


or being free from a sin, but believing in and working with spirits other than that of God, without knowing any better? [/quote]
Mulls,

I'm willing to go with you on this, if you can expand on what you are saying, and show me how what you say is true. I will certianly pray about it. Believing that the Saints in heaven can pray for us here on earth isn't a direction I would choose to go down unless God truly gave me peace about it and I knew it was not anti-biblical.

[mulls]

i don't know if i personally prove this to be true, i'm just trying to give you some warning, and i'm glad you are taking what i'm saying into consideration. i'll just try to think out loud for a bit and try to make myself more clear....



Situation A: you are struggling with a sin. you know it's wrong, and you acknowledge needing God's help to break it. but it's an obsession, and it's a serious serious problem. but you are working on it, with help of the Holy Spirit, with eyes focused on God and nowhere else. the devil keeps on you with the sin, but you know God is on your side, and you're fighting together.


Situation B: you go about seeking to free yourself of a sin by 'other' spiritual means (please, no offense intended at all, just trying to make a point). you find that this means works, and are free of the sin, and at least for the moment have peace in your soul. but now you are interested in a spiritual matter that can be considered 'controversial' to say the least, and may start getting deeper and deeper into this new spiritual realm, with the worst case being that you are not as focused squarely on God as you once were. the devil concedes giving up the bondage he had you in with the sin, but is happy to know that he may be leading you astray from God by other means.



personally, I would rather be in situation A. i would rather have a problem in my life, but focusing on God to help me beat it. i wouldn't want anything else to take away focus from God WHATSOEVER, no matter how much it may benefit me. i don't want to overcome the problem by any other means, know what i mean? if i had a money problem, i would rather suffer the consequences of being in debt and wait for God to provide an answer, rather than stealing money to pay it off immediately.

i hope that helps expand on what i said, it's the best analogy i can come up with right now. maybe we should continue this through pm, or instant message me if you want.

i know you know about discerning the spirits, and i pray that God leads you in the proper direction.

peace.

[Theoketos]

The Rosary is a lens by which we can Focus on God. The Rosary is Christocentric.

Prayer is the way to conquer sin.

The Rosary is a Powerful Prayer

The Rosary will conquer sin.

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='mulls' date='Mar 13 2004, 08:56 PM'] Bro, another thing to add to my last post...



you figured that if all of this was from the devil, he would have done harm to himself by alowing you to be free from this sin, right?


but if in fact it is from the devil, now he's got you believing in spritual stuff that's not of God.


what's worse.... acknowledging a sin, knowing it's wrong, and doing your best with God's help to become free of it?


or being free from a sin, but believing in and working with spirits other than that of God, without knowing any better? [/quote]
Christ says something about this too, does he not? When they accuse him of casting out demons by calling upon Satan he says "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Well, if the Rosary is evil, why would it be a means through which good could come? It would be as if the Devil was divided against himself.

[mulls]

somebody is 'blessed' with wealth. that's a good thing. but the wealth takes over his life and leads him astray from God. is it still good?


a man meets a beautiful woman and marries her. that's a good thing. but the woman is totally wrong for him, not the person who God intended for him, and he married her more out of lust than love. his relationship with God is hurt. is this marriage a good thing? is she still good for him?


good can come from both situations....money can be used to do good and marriage can produce wonderful children. but for the person in question, his relationship with God was affected badly.



remember, Satan = angel of LIGHT.

he looks GOOD, enticing, attractive, etc etc.


that's all i'm trying to say

[BLAZEr]

Mulls, here a little logic will help to clarify this. First of all, goods can be used inordinately. You can have too much of a good thing, or HAVE a good thing TOO MUCH. You can abuse and love something good in a way that makes that thing an obstacle to the greater good, which is union with God.

The second example is preposterous. Whether he married the "right" woman is irrelevant. The question is how he will respond to the woman he is married to. The Catholic view of this situation is basically "Whether you should have or should't have married this person, you did, and now the question is how do I seek my holiness with this person, and help them to seek theirs."

Satan may have been an angel of light, but he is also horribly disfigured by his fall. He is no longer an angel at all, but a demon. Yes, he makes himself attractive, but the soul that is careful will recognize this 'attractions" for what they are, obstacles to the true love of God.

I understnad your cautions, but the problem is that you are confusing two things. First, it's one thing, if you believe the Rosary to be a good thing, to say that it could become a disordered love. Yes, it could. A person could care more about the rosary than God. However, this is rare because the Rosary, for Catholics, is entirely focused, centered, is directed toward and emerges from Devotion to Christ.

If you don't believe the Rosary is a good thing from the get go, then you believe it is from the evil one and the evil one cannot cast himself out of our lives. That is clear from the example I posted above: because it would cause the House to be divided against itself.

[Theologian in Training]

Mulls,

I know you are saying that you are trying to maintain a sense of balance, but I think it is more bias than balance. You make this evident in your examples, and in the direction you lean to and are trying to have Bro. Adam lean as well.

I mean no offense when I ask this, but have you ever explored the mysteries of the Rosary? The majority of those mysteries are both Scriptural and Christocentric. Those that are not explicitly as such, still do not fail have both as their basis.

Just my .02

God Bless

[Aloysius]

Bro Adam, have you explored the roll of the Mother of the King in a Davidic Kingdom? you need some Scott Hahn

i can say that Mulls is right that experiences that seem to make us better can actually hurt us, this is shown in New Age healing techniques and such. however, you must look into whether or not this is something that takes your eyes off of Christ. honestly, praying the Rosary, were you centered on ONLY Mary, or did you notice Christ's presence?

[littleflower+JMJ]

the rosary is simply the Our Father (Lk11:1-4) and the Hail Mary (Lk 1:28, Luke 1:28, 47, John 2:1–11, Luke 1:42, Luke 1:48, Rev. 12:1–2), both are in the bible, recited while meditating on the holy mysteries of Jesus, consisting of earlier life, death and resurrection of Jesus. a devotion that has been around since the early christians, the first ones who remembered the life of Jesus through Prayer. it brings you closer to who Jesus really is and His life of what He did for us.

as for intercession, [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp"]from here[/url]
here are some verses (1 Tim. 2:1–4), (Rom. 8:3–8), (1 Cor. 3:12–15), (Rev. 5:8), (Jas. 5:16)....there are just a few
the rosary is in no way "leads away" anyone from God, it is 100% Christ-centered.
for the more you learn/pray about each one, the more you learn that they all point and lead to Jesus. :wub:

Rosary----------->God
Intercession of saints--------->God
Blessed Mother---------->Her Son

God bless,
+JMJ

God will reveal to us where he truly is.....and those who truly seek will surely find. God is awesome like that, ask and you shall recieve, knock and it shall be opened on to you.

no one expects anyone to just *puff* get everything, especially about the BLessed Mother, its a relationship thats truly from heaven that will grow and flourish through prayer and time. :wub:

just do not be afraid, for where you find Jesus, you will find His Mother also :group: and all who are in heaven...........

prayers.........

[Laudate_Dominum]

I haven't read the whole thread, but from my passing glance there seems to be a debate brewing. Anyway, as I don't have time to get involved (I'm about to go to Mass), I just wanted to say one thing in response to the original post.

I know of a famous convert to Catholicism (I can't use names) who struggled with a certain sin of impurity since he was a teenager and was never able to shake it. During the process of his conversion he had a similar experience of going out on a limb and praying the Rosary specifically because of this problem. He says he has prayed the Rosary regularly ever since and has not fallen into this sin ever since!

I hope this is what happens to you Brother Adam. I hope that some day you will have an awesome conversion story too.

God bless.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote]i wouldn't want anything else to take away focus from God WHATSOEVER, no matter how much it may benefit me. [/quote]
This captures the protestant misconception well. I know of no greater way to keep focused on God than devotion to Mary. There are not two competing compartments--God and Mary. This is something protestants seem hard pressed to understand... I'm going to Mass.
Peace.