Do We Need To Modernize The Church?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lord Philip' post='1716664' date='Dec 2 2008, 02:26 PM']The modern Church is a sham. Before the abuse by clergy and laity of the Holy Second Vatican Council, 75% of Catholics regularly attended Mass. Now only 25% regularly attend. 50% of our brothers and sisters have left the faith, and this modern, tired, hippie refuse has done nothing to save them. In fact, it has driven them away.[/quote]

...is this heresy?

Because this doesn't sound like it:

[quote]I wish I could use stronger language, but damnation on the modernization of the Church (that is, modernization which does not conform to the maxims TRULY laid down in the Second Vatican Council).[/quote]

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Lord Philip' post='1716664' date='Dec 2 2008, 03:26 PM']Christ is not honored by ugly buildings.
The modern Church is a sham.[/quote]

Christ is honored by whatever we build in his honor. It doesn't matter what you think it looks like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The modern Church is a sham, are you frickin serious!?! Go fly a kite.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1716666' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:40 PM']Christ is honored by whatever we build in his honor. It doesn't matter what you think it looks like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The modern Church is a sham, are you frickin serious!?! Go fly a kite.[/quote]

"The modern Church is a sham"

Perhaps I should clarify myself here, because this could easily be interpreted to mean something I did not intend.

The Church, as the institution of Christ, is immutable and infallible. While the world lasts, it will continue to validly administer the sacraments and will be undefeated by the whiles of Satan.

So now that that is out of the way...

54% of Catholics voted for baby-killing Obama.

Only 25% of Catholics regularly attend Mass, as opposed to 75% in the last generation.

The Western Church is teeming with heterodox clergy, chancery officers, and liturgists. Many (if not most) of our Bishops in the US are too afraid (or are wholly unwilling) to take a stand against abortion and other modern crimes.

Sad.

So on a cosmic level, the Church is strong and always will be. On the practical level, in our day the Church is weak, marginalized, and overrun with heretics.

"Christ is honored by whatever we build in his honor."

Wrong. God rejected Cain's sacrifice. God made it very clear to the Jews how they were to worship him. The Western tradition is objectively good, true, and beautiful. Obstinate divergence from it is not in the spirit of true Catholic development. Good intentions are not enough when it comes to authentic, liturgical worship. Form is essential, and the Church has affirmed this time and time again.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Blasphemy. The eternal archetype of beauty is God himself. Beauty is not, on the ontological level, purely subjective (that is what this ridiculous statement makes it out to be), but is rather the most objective thing in existence.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1716665' date='Dec 2 2008, 12:31 PM']...is this heresy?

Because this doesn't sound like it:[/quote]

I wouldn't call it the Holy Second Vatican council if I was one of those ultra-traditionalists or Sedevacantists who call it an invalid Council. It was a valid council.

I do not attack any council, only the perversion of its teachings when it is received by local clergy and laity. The truth of Vatican II was twisted, mangled and completely lost amidst the wave of heretical and heteroprax innovations that took place in the decades after the council. None of the modern garbage that we see today was an authentic product of Vatican II.