Who Is Considered A Christian?

[Paladin D]

It's pretty common to see that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are listed as 'Christians' on various publications and websites. Of course, they do make a distinction between 'Trinitarian' and 'Unitarian' Christians.

According to these sources, they use the definition of a Christian as follows:

[i]"One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."[/i]


So by this definition, wouldn't it make these two groups 'Christian'?

My belief is that they aren't Christian, based on the fact that they DO NOT hold onto the Christian dogma of Trinitarianism. Your thoughts?

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1706619' date='Nov 21 2008, 12:59 AM']It's pretty common to see that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are listed as 'Christians' on various publications and websites. Of course, they do make a distinction between 'Trinitarian' and 'Unitarian' Christians.

According to these sources, they use the definition of a Christian as follows:

[i]"One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."[/i]


So by this definition, wouldn't it make these two groups 'Christian'?

My belief is that they aren't Christian, based on the fact that they DO NOT hold onto the Christian dogma of Trinitarianism. Your thoughts?[/quote]

Based upon the definition that you listed:

[i]"One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus."[/i]

I would say that Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians.

However, we should be asking whether or not the definition is proper, which you allude to here:

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1706619' date='Nov 21 2008, 12:59 AM']My belief is that they aren't Christian, based on the fact that they DO NOT hold onto the Christian dogma of Trinitarianism. Your thoughts?[/quote]

I think that I tend to agree with you; Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons do not profess belief in Christ as God, and so I tend to not see them as being "Christian" for that reason. However, they do follow the teachings of Christ. So there is, at the very least, colloquial value in calling them Christian -- it eases communication. However, "ease" of communication should not be the determining factor in the words that we use, but rather precision and truth in those words.

If anything; I think that there is evangelical value in stating that JW's and Mormons are not Christian. It begs the question from the charitable listener, "Well, why not?", which in turn provides one with the opportunity to answer that question as noted above. If, however, the listener is not charitable, then I wouldn't mention this point unless it were crucial to the topic at hand -- best to steer clear of potential points of division [b]in that instance[/b] if they are not central to the current conversation.

Doesn't really answer your question in terms of the theory that you're looking for, but provides some thinking points in terms of relating that concept to others.

[CatherineM]

I guess I'm not in a terribly charitable mood this morning, because I can think of several more groups besides the Mormons and JW's that I'd group in as not Christian by my definition. There are days that I'd lump in a whole bunch of Catholics as well.

Having just done a paper on pastoral care of pro-choice politicians, I'm going to be prejudiced for awhile after all the reading I had to do on it.

[Apotheoun]

To be a Christian one must not only profess orthodox faith in Christ, but he must also be validly baptized.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1706619' date='Nov 21 2008, 01:59 AM']My belief is that they aren't Christian, based on the fact that they DO NOT hold onto the Christian dogma of Trinitarianism. Your thoughts?[/quote]

I think it's fair to make the distinction between Trinitarian and Unitarian Christians, or pseudo-Christians. Of course, the dictionary definition isn't going to get into theological specifics.

One point someone made to me recently about using belief in the Trinity as a litmus test for whether one is Christian is that we would thus define many (if not most) of the bishops at the Council of Nicea as non-Christians. Perhaps you could say the belief was open to dispute before it was defined, but even then, it seems a definition of "Christian" should be consistent throughout the entire Christian Era.

You could say, "one who affirms the seven ecumenical councils," but even then the Coptic and Ethiopian Orthodox would be left out, and I imagine some Protestants too.

[Apotheoun]

Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and a few other groups are not Christian, because their baptisms are not valid, and their understanding of the faith is not orthodox.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1706966' date='Nov 21 2008, 10:45 AM']Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and a few other groups are not Christian, because their baptisms are not valid, and their understanding of the faith is not orthodox.[/quote]

All depends on how you define the word "Christian." By the dictionary definition, they are. Of course, by the dictionary definition of the word, even a Muslim could claim to be Christian. Guess that's the weakness of dictionaries.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1706963' date='Nov 21 2008, 09:26 AM']To be a Christian one must not only profess orthodox faith in Christ, but he must also be validly baptized.[/quote]



I would add though, one need not have totally orthodox beliefs to be Christians. Protestants and other heretics, for example, are Christian but do not have totally orthodox beliefs. In addition, though the definition provided in the first post said that one needs to follow the teachings of Jesus, there are many Christians, who although they have Christian beliefs, do not refrain from gravely sinning.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1707317' date='Nov 21 2008, 04:09 PM']All depends on how you define the word "Christian." By the dictionary definition, they are. Of course, by the dictionary definition of the word, even a Muslim could claim to be Christian. Guess that's the weakness of dictionaries.[/quote]

You hinted at it....thought I would explicitly state it.

According to [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/christian"]Merriam Webster online.[/url]

[i] 1Chris·tian
Pronunciation: \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date: 1526

1 a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
b (1): disciple 2
(2): a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906
(3): a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2: the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress[/i]

So it's nice and vague. What's the deal with being a member of Churches of Christ in 1906 and union of the [u]United [/u]Church of Christ in 1961? I'm confused ?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1707380' date='Nov 21 2008, 06:29 PM']What's the deal with being a member of Churches of Christ in 1906 and union of the [u]United [/u]Church of Christ in 1961? I'm confused ?[/quote]

That's the title given members of those denominations. As members of the Roman Catholic Church, we are Catholics, members of any Lutheran World Federation denomination are called Lutherans, and members of the Church of Christ and Christian Church are called Christians specifically by their association with those denominations, not only in the looser sense by which all believers are Christians.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1707357' date='Nov 21 2008, 03:03 PM']

I would add though, one need not have totally orthodox beliefs to be Christians. Protestants and other heretics, for example, are Christian but do not have totally orthodox beliefs. In addition, though the definition provided in the first post said that one needs to follow the teachings of Jesus, there are many Christians, who although they have Christian beliefs, do not refrain from gravely sinning.[/quote]
They must have orthodox Triadological and Christological views to be Christian, and the recent decision of the CDF on the invalidity of Mormon baptism supports this fact.

[Vincent Vega]

I would say one would have to profess the entire Nicene Creed (with the optional exception of the Filioque) in order to properly be called a Christian.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1707625' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:34 PM']They must have orthodox Triadological and Christological views to be Christian, and the recent decision of the CDF on the invalidity of Mormon baptism supports this fact.[/quote]

Though Mormon baptism is invalid, one's Trinitarian and Christological views need not be totally orthodox for valid baptism. The Arians, for example, validly baptized. I would probably not consider the Arians Christians, however.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1707646' date='Nov 21 2008, 10:14 PM']Though Mormon baptism is invalid, one's Trinitarian and Christological views need not be totally orthodox for valid baptism. The Arians, for example, validly baptized. I would probably not consider the Arians Christians, however.[/quote]
I do not accept the Arians as Christians, any more than I accept the Jehovah's Witnesses (modern Semi-Arians of a sort) as such.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1707634' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:47 PM']I would say one would have to profess the entire Nicene Creed (with the optional exception of the Filioque) in order to properly be called a Christian.[/quote]

I would agree with that.

Many would disagree on go on a mini-rampage about as long as you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and then you'll be saved forever.