Possible Ex-communication

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=39553"]http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/arti...px?RsrcID=39553[/url]

[eagle_eye222001]

We will see. I think the Church will have much to protest with Obama and the Big Left.

The stage is being set. The battle will begin. The Pro-Life Movement will experience several losses.

Yeah there is going to be excommunications. You can just about guarantee that.

[Brother Adam]

We'll see. The excommunication of Catholics in politics such as Biden and Pelosi is long overdue.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1706965' date='Nov 21 2008, 10:33 AM']We'll see. The excommunication of Catholics in politics such as Biden and Pelosi is long overdue.[/quote]

I don't know if there are any Canadien politicians left that have not been excommunicated automatically. Sad really.

[thessalonian]

This is coming to a head. They have to do it!

[zwergel88]

Why the smiley face next to this thread? Even if you believe this is the right thing to do, it's still sad. Why would you be happy about anyone's excommunication? Personally, I would feel awful for these politicians and hope that they changed their minds before it was too late.

[Slappo]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1707220' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:26 AM']Why the smiley face next to this thread? Even if you believe this is the right thing to do, it's still sad. Why would you be happy about anyone's excommunication? Personally, I would feel awful for these politicians and hope that they changed their minds before it was too late.[/quote]

Because excommunication is an act of love by the Church towards the person being excommunicated. When excommunication is deserved, such as in these cases, it is loving for the Church to excommunicate said persons. It is an act of love not only towards the individual, but towards the rest of the Church universal by showing what is okay and what is not okay. The people are catechized, and the individual is rebuked for his position and told in a formal way that to continue holding such position is to endanger his eternal soul.

Excommunication when due is charitable.

EDIT: People would smile about said excommunications because it means our bishops are taking the courageous stance to love these people when it is hardest. It is like punishing your children, you hate to do it because they are in a way hurt by it, but deep down it is really one of the greatest acts of love you can give them.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Slappo

[thessalonian]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1707220' date='Nov 21 2008, 01:26 PM']Why the smiley face next to this thread? Even if you believe this is the right thing to do, it's still sad. Why would you be happy about anyone's excommunication? Personally, I would feel awful for these politicians and hope that they changed their minds before it was too late.[/quote]


Point taken.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1707220' date='Nov 21 2008, 02:26 PM']Why the smiley face next to this thread? Even if you believe this is the right thing to do, it's still sad. Why would you be happy about anyone's excommunication? Personally, I would feel awful for these politicians and hope that they changed their minds before it was too late.[/quote]

I was thinking that too. It's a serious situation, not a happy one...I think this smiley would be better: (the one that will show up at the top of this post.)

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1707228' date='Nov 21 2008, 11:40 AM']Because excommunication is an act of love by the Church towards the person being excommunicated. When excommunication is deserved, such as in these cases, it is loving for the Church to excommunicate said persons. It is an act of love not only towards the individual, but towards the rest of the Church universal by showing what is okay and what is not okay. The people are catechized, and the individual is rebuked for his position and told in a formal way that to continue holding such position is to endanger his eternal soul.

Excommunication when due is charitable.

EDIT: People would smile about said excommunications because it means our bishops are taking the courageous stance to love these people when it is hardest. It is like punishing your children, you hate to do it because they are in a way hurt by it, but deep down it is really one of the greatest acts of love you can give them.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
agreed.

[cappie]

From Ed Peters:

FOCA will certainly be introduced, it will likely pass and be signed into law, and various Catholic legislators will commit objective grave sin by supporting it. They will be liable to consequences under Canon 915 for doing so (btw, they should be liable whether FOCA passes or no).

But they will not be liable to excommunication under c 1398. I suppose I'll just have to go on repeating this until somebody (in a position to get quoted on the issue) reads my post from last year:[url="http://www.canonlaw.info/2007/05/case-for-applying-canon-1398-to.html"]http://www.canonlaw.info/2007/05/case-for-...on-1398-to.html[/url]

[Apotheoun]

Below is a link to Archbishop Burke's article on canon 915:

[url="http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm"][u]The Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to Those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin[/u][/url]

[Guest MJReynolds]

I'm a Culture of Life, Centrist, Blue Dog Democrat. I do not think that either party has a monopoly on the Life issue. As a Catholic it is not proper to call for the excommunication of a politician because he has certain voting records on abortion, the death penalty, or unjust war. It is silly to think that Biden needs to be excommunicated because he doesn't impose his religious beliefs on his constituents. I'd rather all politicians be Pro-Life. But the major flaw in the predominant Pro-Life argument is that the only solution is to overturn Roe v. Wade. The fact of the matter is that this would only make it a state issue. The real solution is to be not only anti-abortion, but also Pro-child-post-birth; give the mother incentive to want to keep it. I've known women who have had self-induced starvation abortions (very sad), but how could the government regulate this? We need programs that encourage adoption and other options for single mothers, not the excommunication of church members that have differing views on how to reduce abortions.

[Brother Adam]

First, shame on you for promoting a culture of death and pretending any Catholic can be pro-murder. The murder of a child is the murder of a child and the genocide of unborn children is worse than the Nazi holocaust. Even Hitler had more compassion in executing the Jewish people than abortion doctors do in abortuaries. Catholic politicians have not only a right but a duty to vote in accord with their faith and must be formally excommunicated for promoting the murder of children. The pro-life movement is already doing plenty to promote adoption over murder and has pregnancy centers available for any mother that needs help. By promoting and condoning a pro-death record Catholic politicians confuse otherwise faithful Catholics who then make mistakes themselves that often land them on a path to hell. The problem is your Planned Parenthood clinics and pro-death organizations that lie to women and to the public and actually offer murder as a choice. Murdering the unborn is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance for the women and children that fall victims to it.

As has already been explained excommunication is a penalty of mercy, both on the faithful and on those receiving the penalty.

Added: I see in your profile you are Catholic. As a Catholic if you have supported murder by voting for Obama our bishops have stated without confusion that you have cooperated in evil. If you have voted for him you need to refrain from receiving communion until you go to confession and discuss with the priest how culpable you are for your sin and if that sin was mortal.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Brother Adam

[zwergel88]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1707776' date='Nov 22 2008, 10:54 AM']First, shame on you for promoting a culture of death and pretending any Catholic can be pro-murder.[/quote]

What?!! MJReyolds stated that he/she is pro-life. Why would you go and claim that this person is something that they just said that they are not? As a matter of fact what is with people on this site trying to label people as things that they have said they are not. If I say I am pro-life please just take my word for it!! The legality of abortion is an extremely complex issue, that's not just as black and white as overturning Roe v. Wade. I agree with the poster that overturning Roe v. Wade would probably just complicate things more. This is not being "pro-culture of death" its just a legal opinion. I think that there are better ways of ending abortion such as a constitutional amendment, but I agree with the poster in this sense that I think that the first step is to increase the amount of support for pregnent women and ensure that children who are born into this country have adequent support.

[quote]The murder of a child is the murder of a child and the genocide of unborn children is worse than the Nazi holocaust. Even Hitler had more compassion in executing the Jewish people than abortion doctors do in abortuaries.[/quote]

This analogy is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard in my life. To diminish the horror of an event such as the Holocaust is ridiculous. There is absolutely no comparison between abortion and the Holocaust. How can you possible argue that Hitler had more compassion that doctors who perform abortions? Even if it turns out that fetal pain is a factor in late term abortions, the procedure doesn't last very long, and the child doesn't know what is happening. In Nazi Germany, people were rounded up from their houses, packed into train cars so tight that they couldn't move, and taken to concentration camps where they were forced to wait for months, enduring squalid conditions, starvation, and back-breaking work, until finally they were systematically exterminated. These were fully cognizant adults who had to live with the gnawing fear of not knowing what was going to happen to them. It must have been unbearable. How is this not worse?

How can you say that