The Prodigal Son

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1707413' date='Nov 21 2008, 08:06 PM']A pretty good life ain't good enough, my friend. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."[/quote]

I know-I just can't help feeling like the "good son" kind of got shafted Katie

[picchick]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1707824' date='Nov 22 2008, 12:24 PM']I know-I just can't help feeling like the "good son" kind of got shafted Katie[/quote]

Which is why I am having trouble with this passage. We are in the same boat

[add]

The Prodigal [u]Son’s [/u]

Is the contrast between an obedient and a disobedient son the lesson here or is it between the reception given to a spendthrift son by the father and the reception given by the eldest son for his brother?
In either case the father did not need to speak words of forgiveness to his son’s; for in his heart and mind, there was nothing to forgive.
His wisdom is an Epiphany of perception of the essential nature or meaning of the blessing of family.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='picchick' post='1707847' date='Nov 22 2008, 12:58 PM']Which is why I am having trouble with this passage. We are in the same boat [/quote]

That boat is a crowded one.

To everyone here who is erroneously saying that the older brother is guilty of the sin of envy or what not: NOWHERE in the passage does the father (or Jesus) berate or criticize the older brother for complaining. NOWHERE. STOP ADDING THINGS TO THE STORY THAT ARE NOT THERE. If anything the father acknowledged it and instead of criticizing the brother, said "everything I have is yours".

It is just human nature to get frustrated and say "why should I make the effort if those that don't make the effort are rewarded and those who do make the effort are not?" after years of build-up (and yes, if you read the gospel story the difference was something that has built up over time - "For years I have ...."). Many of you here are young and idealistic, but trust me, when you reach middle age and you have experienced the "shafts" of life for years on end with no end in sight except the day they put you in the ground, you will have a deeper appreciation of what the older brother was going through.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='picchick' post='1707847' date='Nov 22 2008, 01:58 PM']Which is why I am having trouble with this passage. We are in the same boat [/quote]

It's a tough one! I understand that the passage is saying that God welcomes back those who repent, but I guess I don't understand exactly what it's saying about those who are doing their best, following what their father/God is asking to the best of their abilities, which as far as we know the other brother was doing. -Katie

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1707880' date='Nov 22 2008, 03:00 PM']That boat is a crowded one.

To everyone here who is erroneously saying that the older brother is guilty of the sin of envy or what not: NOWHERE in the passage does the father (or Jesus) berate or criticize the older brother for complaining. NOWHERE. STOP ADDING THINGS TO THE STORY THAT ARE NOT THERE. If anything the father acknowledged it and instead of criticizing the brother, said "everything I have is yours".

It is just human nature to get frustrated and say "why should I make the effort if those that don't make the effort are rewarded and those who do make the effort are not?" after years of build-up (and yes, if you read the gospel story the difference was something that has built up over time - "For years I have ...."). Many of you here are young and idealistic, but trust me, when you reach middle age and you have experienced the "shafts" of life for years on end with no end in sight except the day they put you in the ground, you will have a deeper appreciation of what the older brother was going through.[/quote]

Good point-it doesn't say the brother isn't justified in feeling frustrated or guilty of envy. I like to think God understands human nature-as long as we don't let feelings like anger/envy/whatever take us over, I don't think there is a sin in feeling them, it's human nature, like ou said.

Maybe the passage intentionally leaves us wondering about the other brother, because perhaps a lot of us identify with him and we are supposed to be thinking about how we deal with feeling "unrewarded" or unacknowleged for our efforts-perhas this passage is asking us to work through feeling this way? Just a thought. -Katie

[tinytherese]

[quote name='kafka' post='1707752' date='Nov 22 2008, 04:31 AM']I'm impressed.
Now you've come up with a few good insights. I am impressed, seriously I am. I dont agree with them all, but just remember, there are several meanings to Sacred Scripture, like mine which are eschatological, and which in my humble tried opinion, will become true. But yours are more down to earth, I love them, and I have now benefited from reading them.

I like your direction, I like your attitude. You make me happy and hopeful.

Feel free, to PM me with any questions about Sacred Scripture.[/quote]

Thank you, but they're really just the notes that I took in class so they're not my own ideas.


I like the way that this thread is going. We should have more debates about scripture on the debate table.

Edited November 22, 2008 by tinytherese

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1707924' date='Nov 22 2008, 02:42 PM']Maybe the passage intentionally leaves us wondering about the other brother, because perhaps a lot of us identify with him and we are supposed to be thinking about how we deal with feeling "unrewarded" or unacknowleged for our efforts-perhas this passage is asking us to work through feeling this way? Just a thought. -Katie[/quote]

Another possibility is that it is asking us not to take our "good workers" for granted and to pay attention to their needs as well.

[Tinkerlina]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1707992' date='Nov 22 2008, 06:18 PM']Another possibility is that it is asking us not to take our "good workers" for granted and to pay attention to their needs as well.[/quote]

Excellent thought! -Katie

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1707880' date='Nov 22 2008, 03:00 PM']That boat is a crowded one.

To everyone here who is erroneously saying that the older brother is guilty of the sin of envy or what not: NOWHERE in the passage does the father (or Jesus) berate or criticize the older brother for complaining. NOWHERE. STOP ADDING THINGS TO THE STORY THAT ARE NOT THERE. If anything the father acknowledged it and instead of criticizing the brother, said "everything I have is yours".[/quote]

Um, I think I made a suggestion that the older brother was also guilty of sin, but it seems to have been blown way out of proportion. For one, I never (nor has anyone in this thread, that I recall) criticized or blamed the older brother for any particular. It certainly sounds like he was envious, but he also had fair reason to be that way.

What is in the story is the older brother saying he worked "like a slave" for his father. I think his relationship with his father needed to be restored just as much as his younger brother's. Just because he was obedient and hard-working doesn't mean his heart had grown colder or more self-focused. So, his father reassured him, "Everything I have is yours," and that's how the parable ends. As I've pointed out again and again, the older brother's response to his father's words are not in the parable.

Sheesh... ya'll need to take a chill pill.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1707923' date='Nov 22 2008, 03:38 PM']It's a tough one! I understand that the passage is saying that God welcomes back those who repent, but I guess I don't understand exactly what it's saying about those who are doing their best, following what their father/God is asking to the best of their abilities, which as far as we know the other brother was doing. -Katie[/quote]

To put it bluntly: Doing your best, obeying rules, and donig good works [i]without love and grace[/i] are just as good a road to Hell as any.

[quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1707924' date='Nov 22 2008, 03:42 PM']Maybe the passage intentionally leaves us wondering about the other brother, because perhaps a lot of us identify with him and we are supposed to be thinking about how we deal with feeling "unrewarded" or unacknowleged for our efforts-perhas this passage is asking us to work through feeling this way? Just a thought. -Katie[/quote]

Well, if you consider yourself a faithful Christian, he is the one you should be identifying with. We don't know why the older brother was obedient, but we should know why we are faithful to our Father, and there are right and wrong reasons for doing the right thing.

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1707992' date='Nov 22 2008, 06:18 PM']Another possibility is that it is asking us not to take our "good workers" for granted and to pay attention to their needs as well.[/quote]

Good point.