The Prodigal Son

[tinytherese]

In my world religions class we had to read chapter 15 of Luke and answer some questions about it. There's one that's really eating at me. It asks when the prodigal son truly repents of his ways and why. There's that part where he is so desperate that he eats the pigs' food and then realizes that his own father's servants have more than enough food to eat that he decideds to go back to his father's house to work as a servant. One could be tempted to think that he came back for the reason of getting food. Or maybe I'm just reading into it wrong. Or maybe he truly repented when he came face to face with his father.

Phamily?

[LouisvilleFan]

Repent means "to turn back," so when he turned back to his father, he was repenting.

Of course, there are two prodigal sons in that story, and there is no mention of the other one repenting.

[picchick]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1704715' date='Nov 19 2008, 11:41 AM']Of course, there are two prodigal sons in that story, and there is no mention of the other one repenting.[/quote]

I don't understand this comment...what did the other son have to repent of?

[CatherineM]

I think he came to his senses when he hit rock bottom. Eating pig food would certainly have done it for me.

The other son had to repent of jealousy, anger, envy.

[picchick]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1704749' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:35 PM']I think he came to his senses when he hit rock bottom. Eating pig food would certainly have done it for me.

The other son had to repent of jealousy, anger, envy.[/quote]

But was it really jealousy or envy? Couldn't his anger be justifiable?

[CatherineM]

I think there was some jealousy. You see that in families where the youngest gets spoiled. I think he also had the pride of being the "good kid." I think his anger was justifiable on this brother wasting away half his father's assets, or upsetting his dad, but when he starts talking about how his dad never throws parties for him and his friends, that shows the green eyed monster.

[picchick]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1704756' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:41 PM']I think there was some jealousy. You see that in families where the youngest gets spoiled. I think he also had the pride of being the "good kid." I think his anger was justifiable on this brother wasting away half his father's assets, or upsetting his dad, but when he starts talking about how his dad never throws parties for him and his friends, that shows the green eyed monster.[/quote]

or could it be that when he mentioned that he was pointing out an inconsistency?

[Paddington]

He told the other brother "all that I have is yours." That ain't bad.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1704751' date='Nov 19 2008, 01:37 PM']But was it really jealousy or envy? Couldn't his anger be justifiable?[/quote]

Depends on the motivation behind them. The "faithful" brother never ran away from home, but he only knew his father as a master and he worked for him like a slave. He wasn't happy to see his brother return home, which calls into question whether he truly loved his father and brother, or if he's really just looking out for himself.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1704839' date='Nov 19 2008, 02:28 PM']Depends on the motivation behind them. The "faithful" brother never ran away from home, but he only knew his father as a master and he worked for him like a slave. He wasn't happy to see his brother return home, which calls into question whether he truly loved his father and brother, or if he's really just looking out for himself.[/quote]

That's a good point, why wasn't he happy to see his brother. Maybe they had different moms.

[picchick]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1704839' date='Nov 19 2008, 03:28 PM']Depends on the motivation behind them. The "faithful" brother never ran away from home, but he only knew his father as a master and he worked for him like a slave. He wasn't happy to see his brother return home, which calls into question whether he truly loved his father and brother, or if he's really just looking out for himself.[/quote]


I disagree. Was he upset that his brother came home or because his father showered gifts and a party over him. Just because someone questions injustice does not mean that they do not love the person that they are questioning.

[kafka]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1704581' date='Nov 19 2008, 03:22 AM']In my world religions class we had to read chapter 15 of Luke and answer some questions about it. There's one that's really eating at me. It asks when the prodigal son truly repents of his ways and why. There's that part where he is so desperate that he eats the pigs' food and then realizes that his own father's servants have more than enough food to eat that he decideds to go back to his father's house to work as a servant. One could be tempted to think that he came back for the reason of getting food. Or maybe I'm just reading into it wrong. Or maybe he truly repented when he came face to face with his father.

Phamily?[/quote]
Good points I will expand below . . . For now, the food mentioned in this passage is the Holy Eucharist, and communion with the Catholic Church.

It is the fact that the Prodigal Son (represented by fallen away Catholics and Protestants) is not recieving Holy Communion, and is not in communion with the Church.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1704715' date='Nov 19 2008, 11:41 AM']Repent means "to turn back," so when he turned back to his father, he was repenting.

Of course, there are two prodigal sons in that story, and there is no mention of the other one repenting.[/quote]
partially a good insight, you are a bit wrong, yet definitely on to something.

[quote name='picchick' post='1704741' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:23 PM']I don't understand this comment...what did the other son have to repent of?[/quote]
you will see below.

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1704749' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:35 PM']I think he came to his senses when he hit rock bottom. Eating pig food would certainly have done it for me.

The other son had to repent of jealousy, anger, envy.[/quote]
I agree.

[quote name='picchick' post='1704751' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:37 PM']But was it really jealousy or envy? Couldn't his anger be justifiable?[/quote]
this may have been the case, if the Father was not God the Father and some pagan god.

[quote name='picchick' post='1704764' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:51 PM']or could it be that when he mentioned that he was pointing out an inconsistency?[/quote]
yes, inconsistency, yet see:
Luke
{15:4} “What man among you, who has one hundred sheep, and if he will have lost one of them, would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the one whom he had lost, until he finds it?
{15:5} And when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
{15:6} And returning home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them: ‘Congratulate me! For I have found my sheep, which had been lost.’
{15:7} I say to you, that there will be so much more joy in heaven over one sinner repenting, than over the ninety-nine just, who do not need to repent. . .
{15:10} So I say to you, there will be joy before the Angels of God over even one sinner who is repentant.”

[quote name='picchick' post='1705358' date='Nov 20 2008, 01:34 AM']I disagree. Was he upset that his brother came home or because his father showered gifts and a party over him. Just because someone questions injustice does not mean that they do not love the person that they are questioning.[/quote]
both are wrong,

in the end, the older brother (Catholic Church) may be more wrong. He should have rejoiced as his Father did. This is a prophetic passage of Christ, in a lesser way for individuals who return to God and the Catholic Church and Holy Communion, yet in a grand and greater way it refers to the Protestant Churches who reunite with the true Catholic Church of Christ:

{15:11} And he said: “A certain man had two sons.

~the two sons are the Catholic Church and the fallen away Protestant Churches.

{15:12} And the younger of them said to the father, ‘Father, give me the portion of your estate which would go to me.’ And he divided the estate between them.
{15:13} And after not many days, the younger son, gathering it all together, set out on a long journey to a distant region. And there, he dissipated his substance, living in luxury.

~ In this passage the Protestant Church is the younger son. He takes his inheretance, meaning the true teachings of Jesus Christ and his Church, and he squanders them, meaning he no longer follows the teachings of God fully.

{15:14} And after he had consumed it all, a great famine occurred in that region, and he began to be in need.

~ The great famine is a world-wide famine which in my opinion is the same as the third seal of Revelation and which will occur sometime in the future. This is meant for the repentance and conversion of the Protestants, whom the Catholics love (or should love) as a brother.

{15:15} And he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that region. And he sent him to his farm, in order to feed the swine.
{15:16} And he wanted to fill his belly with the scraps that the swine ate. But no one would give it to him.
{15:17} And returning to his senses, he said: ‘How many hired hands in my father’s house have abundant bread, while I perish here in famine!
{15:18} I shall rise up and go to my father, and I will say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you.
{15:19} I am not worthy to be called your son. Make me one of your hired hands.’

~this sequence refers to the repentance and conversion of the Protestants. During the great famine they begin to realize, they have lost their true food, namely the Eucharist, and communion with the Catholic Church which is the "abundant bread" of the Father's house, and so they (incredibly) will begin to return to the Catholic Church.

{15:20} And rising up, he went to his father. But while he was still at a distance, his father saw him, and he was moved with compassion, and running to him, he fell upon his neck and kissed him.

~notice he is still at a distance and still his father is moved to compassion. The Protestant Churches will be blessed with special gifts of grace before they reach the home in full communion with the holy Catholic Church.

{15:21} And the son said to him: ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. Now I am not worthy to be called your son.’
{15:22} But the father said to his servants: ‘Quickly! Bring out the best robe, and clothe him with it. And put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet.
{15:23} And bring the fatted calf here, and kill it. And let us eat and hold a feast.
{15:24} For this son of mine was dead, and has revived; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to feast.

~ the best robe represents the best priestly vestments, namely the office of the pope. The ring and the shoes also represent the Papacy. A former Protestant will be chosen by God the Father as the Pope at that time. And as it says in verse 23 there will be feasting. The great famine will end!

{15:25} But his elder son was in the field. And when he returned and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing.
{15:26} And he called one of the servants, and he questioned him as to what these things meant.
{15:27} And he said to him: ‘Your brother has returned, and your father has killed the fatted calf, because he has received him safely.’

~Some Catholics of those times represented by the elder son, will wrongly resent the reunification and the newly elected Protestant Pope. They wrongly refuse to join in the feasts and celebrations. Catholics who resent the reunification of the Protestants are wrong. It is God's will, and it will happen, though there will be a period of refining to take place.

{15:28} Then he became indignant, and he was unwilling to enter. Therefore, his father, going out, began to plead with him.
{15:29} And in response, he said to his father: ‘Behold, I have been serving you for so many years. And I have never transgressed your commandment. And yet, you have never given me even a young goat, so that I might feast with my friends.
{15:30} Yet after this son of yours returned, who has devoured his substance with loose women, you have killed the fatted calf for him.’
{15:31} But he said to him: ‘Son, you are with me always, and all that I have is yours.
{15:32} But it was necessary to feast and to rejoice. For this brother of yours was dead, and has revived; he was lost, and is found.’ ”

~ Eventually, all true Christians on earth will be members of the Catholic Church.

Edited November 20, 2008 by kafka

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1705358' date='Nov 20 2008, 02:34 AM']I disagree. Was he upset that his brother came home or because his father showered gifts and a party over him. Just because someone questions injustice does not mean that they do not love the person that they are questioning.[/quote]

For sure, the elder brother had every right to be upset. Keep in mind that requesting his inheritance was like saying to his father, "You are dead to me." By paying the inheritance, the father effectively disowned his son. When the father joyfully proclaims, "this son of mine was dead and is alive again," he isn't using hyperbole. They were as good as dead to each other.

So he goes off, bears the sour fruit of his foolish behavior, repents, and confesses his sins, desiring to be treated like a hired hand. We know that part of the story, and it doesn't seem fair, he doesn't deserve it... the same responses are heard to the parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard (Mt 20) who worked for different lengths of time, yet received the same wage. Clearly, Jesus isn't worried about what's fair in our eyes. God wants humble and repentant hearts. When his younger son repented, he received his heart. As for his elder son, the father is still waiting, as this son had just pleaded, "I have been working [i]like a slave[/i] for you." Do we work like slaves or hired hands for those we love?

The parable closes with the father's words to his elder son. I think it ends this way because those words are for every faithful, obedient Christian (or Jew, especially in Jesus' day) and each of us decides how the parable ends with the way we live out the elder brother's response.

Edited November 20, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1705600' date='Nov 20 2008, 10:55 AM']For sure, the elder brother had every right to be upset. Keep in mind that requesting his inheritance was like saying to his father, "You are dead to me." By paying the inheritance, the father effectively disowned his son. When the father joyfully proclaims, "this son of mine was dead and is alive again," he isn't using hyperbole. They were as good as dead to each other.

So he goes off, bears the sour fruit of his foolish behavior, repents, and confesses his sins, desiring to be treated like a hired hand. We know that part of the story, and it doesn't seem fair, he doesn't deserve it... the same responses are heard to the parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard (Mt 20) who worked for different lengths of time, yet received the same wage. Clearly, Jesus isn't worried about what's fair in our eyes. God wants humble and repentant hearts. When his younger son repented, he received his heart. As for his elder son, the father is still waiting, as this son had just pleaded, "I have been working [i]like a slave[/i] for you." Do we work like slaves or hired hands for those we love?

The parable closes with the father's words to his elder son. I think it ends this way because those words are for every faithful, obedient Christian (or Jew, especially in Jesus' day) and each of us decides how the parable ends with the way we live out the elder brother's response.[/quote]


It may SEEM as if he had a right to be upset, but no one has a right to be upset when the Father rejoices. He had no REAL right to be angry. He may have felt personally wronged by the Father (God), but God does not wrong people. The older brother is most definitely in the wrong.

[Didacus]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1704715' date='Nov 19 2008, 12:41 PM']Repent means "to turn back," so when he turned back to his father, he was repenting.

Of course, there are two prodigal sons in that story, and there is no mention of the other one repenting.[/quote]

The second son repenting did not add to the point of the story.

Is it said that the first son repented specifically? 'cause if he went back to his father just so he can get a decent job; that's tough to say it was repentance.