Is Government Welfare Evil?

[MagiDragon]

I'm thinking of "Evil" in the sense that it causes something less good than what would otherwise naturally occur.

I'm looking at this using JP the Great's philosophy of phenomenology: analyze whether something is good by looking at what it does to you. For the sake of argument, I'm going to be awarding hypothetical "Points" for each step on the way. So, to properly analyze the morality of government works such as welfare, food stamps, and government housing, we'll need to look at it from several perspectives; these were the perspectives that I thought of (Let me know if I missed any other important perspectives) :

donor\taxpayer
charitable organization\case worker
recipient
coverage
efficiency

From the perspective of a donor, you are intentionally parting with the money that you have, sacrificing your own pleasure for the need of another person: +1 moral point, +1 good will

From the perspective of a taxpayer, you are parting with money knowing that if you do not do so, the government will take your home, throw you in jail, or simply make your life miserable until you have paid up: -1 good will point

As a charity worker, you do not earn a living off of the people who are in poverty, you simply seek out those in need, and those with excess, and transfer money: +1 good will point for those with money, +1 good will for those in need(, +1 moral point, if you don't get paid.)

As a case worker, you are paid by the government. You have a computer driven program to track down who needs what. Your job is to determine if that person *really* needs what they are signed up to get: score could range from +1 good will to -1 good will (if the worker sees those they serve as leeches on society.)

As a charitable recipient, you realize that no one has to care for you, they do it from their own generosity. You realize you are benefiting from the kindness of others, and you tend to hope that you can repay them someday. -1 pride, +1 good will

As a government recipient you are entitled to a roof over your head, food, and warm clothes. In general, you think you're getting the short end of the stick because you don't have nearly as much as most people: +1 pride, -1 good will

Now for coverage, this may be where the government pulls out a win. The government is able to ensure that barely anyone is missed in their social programs. Charitable organizations have more trouble doing this. +1 no-starving-people-in-our-streets points, -1 I-see-people-in-need-and-should-help-them points

Efficiency: when the government *does* find someone, only about 70% of the money ever goes towards the needy. Many charities boast efficiencies of over 90%.

As I see it, the only reasons we have welfare are to hide the poor, and to ease our consciences that no one is dying from lack of means.

[CatherineM]

When these discussions about welfare come up, I remember two things most clearly. A friend who works at a battered woman's shelter told me that as the two year limit was approached, many women returned to their abusers rather than be homeless. The second is that as the time limit approached, many who had been on welfare for years, finally filled out the paperwork for disability. They weren't non-working poor, they were disabled, but stayed on the much lower income of welfare rather than admit that they had a disability. Been there, done that, so certainly understand not wanting to admit you're defective.

A lot of the time, when people are complaining about those on welfare who are being supported even though they should be working, they are actually complaining about people who can not physically work. Believe me when I say that almost all would like to be able to pick up their mats and walk away to a job.

[MagiDragon]

The thing is, I'm not complaining about parting with money, (I'm a long way from rich, but I happily part with it if I see someone in need.) but that we're using the "Ends justify the means" argument when we say "it's ok to threaten someone as long as we're making sure people have what they need, and it's the government doing it."

[CatherineM]

I guess I'm kind of weird. I never feel threatened into paying my taxes any more than I feel threatened into not speeding or shoplifting. I pay my taxes willingly, and grateful to be a citizen of the United States, and a permanent resident of Canada. I will admit to grumbling about paying taxes in two countries on the same income, but I still do it.

[MagiDragon]

Fair enough . . . I guess I don't feel particularly threatened either, but I have considered that people *should* have a way to get out of paying taxes if the government is using their money for things that the taxpayer considers completely immoral. (Abortion, war, torture . . . ) I'm thinking the conscientious non-taxpayer should have to live in absolute squalor, but it *should* be an option . . . and I don't mean through welfare.

[Madame Vengier]

I can't answer this poll because I think the use of the word "evil" here is not warranted.

[thessalonian]

Government has become our savior and welfare takes the beatitude out of charity that should be run by private entities. The giver is a government without a human face and the receiver is "entitled" to the benefits. Such transactions are missing the supernatural effects of good deeds. They are meritless (in terms of Catholic merit). Therefore I find it morally questionable.

They exist because of the failure of Christians to provide sufficiently for those in need and so I am not totally callous toward them.

[peregrinus_WA]

From my blog:

[quote][url="http://peregrinus.stblogs.com/2008/09/22/is-welfare-just-another-form-of-slavery/"]
[b]Is Welfare just another form of Slavery?[/b][/url]

Now that I got the “shock title” out of the way, let me explain.

There is a talk radio station in Detroit that is conservative in slant (which I prefer) and I listen to it a lot (surprise surprise).

More than once on this station, Welfare has been likened to Slavery for what it does to people’s desire to better themselves and how it tends to destroy the family especially within the African-American community. There now seems to be multiple generations in the same families that are on welfare.

Before I am accused of racism, it is not only whites that are saying this. There is a 2 hour program on Saturday (2nd hour rebroadcast on Sunday) hosted by a African American Elder (i.e. Pastor) that echos this same theme.

With the way the welfare system is set up right now (the reforms of the 90’s did not change that much), I tend to agree with this position.[/quote]

Edited November 19, 2008 by peregrinus_WA

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1704278' date='Nov 18 2008, 04:22 PM']I can't answer this poll because I think the use of the word "evil" here is not warranted.[/quote]
Wait until ironmonk finds this thread. He would disagree.