Spiritual Directors

[Maria Faustina]

Hey VS Pham,
I know I've asked about spiritual directors like a thousand times, but I have a few more questions. For those of you that have or have had them, is a spiritual director a major part of your discernment? What do you look for in a spiritual director? When/Where do usually speak to her/him? And as far as applying to a religious community, how necessary is it to have spoken with a priest about your vocation?

Thanks Guys.
Prayers+Love in Christ,
Maria Faustina

[Laudem Gloriae]

I know many orders want a reference letter from a spiritual director (or a priest, some orders will take either or and some ask for one from a spiritual director) upon or before entrance and before you enter for a retreat or a live-in or an aspirancy.

I had one for awhile last year but he was reassigned to another parish far from me but he did send me a reference letter to use for the above reasons. It's hard for me to find one in my area as the good ones are busy with too many people and aren't taking on any more and the others are either not great (not understanding monastic vocations) or liberal sisters or worse (for people with vocations), lay people who have just taken a 6 month course or something! So I am not looking for the last 2-3 but feel I am alright at the moment and I have been blessed with good prioresses that have been very good in this capacity. Though if I could get a good one I sure would love it.

[Carmeliteheart726]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1703043' date='Nov 16 2008, 10:55 PM']I know many orders want a reference letter from a spiritual director (or a priest, some orders will take either or and some ask for one from a spiritual director) upon or before entrance and before you enter for a retreat or a live-in or an aspirancy.

I had one for awhile last year but he was reassigned to another parish far from me but he did send me a reference letter to use for the above reasons. It's hard for me to find one in my area as the good ones are busy with too many people and aren't taking on any more and the others are either not great (not understanding monastic vocations) or liberal sisters or worse (for people with vocations), lay people who have just taken a 6 month course or something! So I am not looking for the last 2-3 but feel I am alright at the moment and I have been blessed with good prioresses that have been very good in this capacity. Though if I could get a good one I sure would love it.[/quote]

I have tried to get a spiritual director, too, for several months now. I don't know why the priests at my old Church and current one both referred me to this sister that I am trying to get in touch with, but I just discovered that she is non-habited (Sinsinawa Dominican). To me, that sends up a red flag. I contacted the Maryknoll Fathers in my diocese too, by email, but haven't heard back from them yet. I intend to call them tomorrow. I would rather have a priest for an SD because I would prefer my spiritual director to be my regular confessor (thus the reason for asking my priests). Anyone have any experience with the Maryknolls?

[Sister_Laurel]

[quote name='Carmeliteheart726' post='1703071' date='Nov 16 2008, 08:25 PM']I have tried to get a spiritual director, too, for several months now. I don't know why the priests at my old Church and current one both referred me to this sister that I am trying to get in touch with, but I just discovered that she is non-habited (Sinsinawa Dominican). To me, that sends up a red flag. I contacted the Maryknoll Fathers in my diocese too, by email, but haven't heard back from them yet. I intend to call them tomorrow. I would rather have a priest for an SD because I would prefer my spiritual director to be my regular confessor (thus the reason for asking my priests). Anyone have any experience with the Maryknolls?[/quote]


The truth is that if you are ONLY looking at people who wear habits you are missing some of the most gifted directors around, and if you are avoiding the directors people refer you to [u]on such a basis [/u]you are wasting everyone's time in even asking for recommendations. Ask instead for someone who will confirm your own world view, never challenge you, etc. The fact is ANY [i]competent[/i] director, habited or not, will assist you in making the RIGHT and INSPIRED decisions for yourself. NOTE WELL, that YOU make the decisions not they. They will NOT discourage you from entering a community which is traditional because they do not belong to one themselves, nor will they encourage you to enter their own. (Especially that will NEVER happen!) But they WILL help you learn to listen and respond to the Holy Spirit, to pray better, and make decision which are informed, mature, and loving.

Meanwhile, most priests do not do spiritual direction (I say that as a director who works with priests). Hearing confessions and doing direction are vastly different ministries and while they complement each other, most priests have neither the training nor time. What many directees find is having a different director from their confessor enriches both experiences because of the differences in the two practices. These are not only my own feelings, they have been confirmed by a number of my own clients, several of whom thought having a priest for both functions was the way to go, but of course it is a personal matter.

Most of us find spiritual direction is invaluable to any discernment process. Personally, I would say it is a sine qua non, especially for someone seriously considering religious/consecrated life in any form. Direction allows a person to come to greater knowledge of themselves and the way God works (and often, is prohibitted from working) in their lives. Generally it is a long term relationship, not geared merely to problem solving (though this will also occur) or to short term conclusions (though these too will also occur). Honesty with ourselves and God often requires the assistance of someone who sees us with an honest and objective eye --- hence my comments about seeking only a director who wears a habit or shares your own world view, etc.(Remember, I am speaking about a competent director --- someone with experience, training, etc who prays well (listens to eh Spirit) and knows how to assist others in this realm, and one who is often recommended by priests and religious who know this because they have worked with him/her or know people who have.)

Sincerely,
Sister Laurel, erem dio
Stillsong Hermitage
[url="http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com"]http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com[/url]

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Maria Faustina' post='1703022' date='Nov 16 2008, 10:06 PM']For those of you that have or have had them, is a spiritual director a major part of your discernment?[/quote]

A spiritual director's duty is to guide the soul along the path of the Spiritual Life.

"Hardly ten in a thousand called by God to perfection heed the call; of a hundred called to contemplation, ninety-nine fail to respond. It must be acknowledged that one of the principal causes is the lack of spiritual directors. Under God, they are the pilots that conduct souls through this unknown ocean of the spiritual life. If no science, no art, how simple soever, can be learned well without a master, much less can any one learn this high wisdom of evangelical perfection, wherein such great mysteries are found. This is the reason why I hold it morally impossible that a soul could without a miracle or without a master, go through what is highest and most arduous in the spiritual life, without running the risk of perishing." - Fr. Godinez

Discerning God's call is difficult. I am not use to how God works. I am a beginner, and just know that He is calling me to holiness and possibly to the vocation of a religious. However, like I said, I don't know how He works. I can easily start to doubt something that has happened as an act of God and I can eaisly start to let my emotions and goody-goody feelings direct the way in which I go, thinking them from God. It is good to have a person there, a wise, prayerful person who has been through this and knows the way much better than I do. That person, the spiritual director, helps the soul to distinguish how God is truly calling them to serve Him. That person can say, "Yes, I think you should do what your desiring to do," or say "No, I don't think that is from God." A spiritual director is a great good when discerning your vocation, and if a prayerful person you are sure God has placed to guide you, can and should be a very major part of one's discernment.

[quote]What do you look for in a spiritual director?[/quote]

St. Francis de Sales declares that a spiritual director must have three principal qualities: "He must be full of charity, of knowledge and of prudence: if he lacks one of these, there is danger."

Look for these virtues and look for someone who has a deep prayer life. Ask God to send you a spiritual director.

I asked people too. My first spiritual director God provided and it just kind of clicked. After some time we both realized that God was calling someone else to direct me, and he suggested I meet with his spiritual director. Both of them are priests, and they have been very helpful. Neither heard my confession reguarly. I went to my parish priest for confession. I would have rather they (the sd) heard my confession on a regular basis, but because of distance and time it just wasn't/isn't possible. It is good though I think for them to hear the confession because they can better help the soul in so many matters when they know the sins one is struggling with. One can tell the spiritual director this without going to confession too though, but for various reasons I would have rather just told the spiritual director in confession.

A good group of priests are [url="http://www.mileschristi.org/"]Miles Christi[/url]. They do spiritual direction, and from what I heard, are awesome. If they are close I really encourage taking advantage of that. I wish they were close to where I am from...

[quote]When/Where do usually speak to her/him?[/quote]

I think it depends on the soul. I believe St. Teresa was of this same mind. It depends on the soul how often one meets with the spiritual director. It is something to discuss with your spiritual director.

I use to meet with my spiritual director once every two weeks. Now, I meet once or so a month. It just depends. Everyone is different.

I think it depends on the spiritual director where you meet. With my current spiritual director and my last, we met in their office. However, my godmother would meet her spiritual director during confession. St. Teresa of Avila met with her spiritual director in the parlor, in the confessional, and she wrote letters. Mother Teresa, expresses in her letters, how she could not meet her spiritual director much, so she ends up writing to him a lot. St. Gemma Galgani, it seems, use to meet with her spiritual director in the confessional, but I think they met at other palces too, like the families' house.

[quote]And as far as applying to a religious community, how necessary is it to have spoken with a priest about your vocation?[/quote]

A community will want a reference from your pastor or spiritual director. My spiritual director has had one of the young women he directed enter the Sister Servants and another enter the Sisters of St. Francis of the Martyr St. George. Both communities wanted a reference from the young women's pastor. I think a spiritual director would suffice too if the pastor did not know you well (my case).

If you go [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/SLIFE5.TXT"]here[/url] you can read The Spiritual Life by Adolphe Tanquerey. Scroll down to #530. Read from there to #558. He discusses any question (including most of these) that you might have regarding Spiritual Direction. It is the only thing I have found so far that really answers the questions about Spiritual Direction that no one else wants to or can answer.

Edited November 17, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[Laudem Gloriae]

I personally agree with Carmelite 726 as the priest in charge of the vocation dept for my diocese specifically told me to stay away from the sisters on the SD list they give out because they are too liberal - from no habit to wanting female priests to not liking monastic vocations and trying to steer you away from them and mentioning the "male hierarchy of the church" and all that rubbish. As they are like this, this priest is going to take them off the list.

Are all non-habited sisters like this? Probably not, but I prefer to have a sister in a full habit if possible as someone who has my beliefs and along the lines of what I am called to - if I was looking for a sister. I am myself preferring a priest as all the orders I've spoken to want a priest for a SD or your parish priest to write the letter and I prefer a priest for my confessor too - meaning the same person.

There are a lot of qualities and such to look for in a SD and a person has to go for the one that they feel God is directing them too and it is usually someone you yourself want - a priest or a habited sister, etc. Just as someone called to a liberal order with no habit, liturgical dancing, social justice issues, etc., they are not going to feel comfortable to a full habited nun I imagine.

[TotusTuusMaria]

I also think it is good for a priest to be the Spiritual Director for a woman because of her weaknesses ... for a man to guide her balances everything out.

St. Francis de Sales says that a woman should have a male (priest) as her director because of the weaknesses of the female character.

Fr. Thomas Dubay says though that while he believes that priests make the best spiritual directors he has met some sisters, in his experience, who have a very high prayer life and who are very competent to direct. His qualifications for a director are “high” or at least some would say. So, for him to say they are competent means more then that they a good knowledge of prayer and the spiritual life. Not just any sister and probably not a lay person.

I have always favored a priest because of what St. Francis de Sales said. I think it is true.

Edited November 17, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[puellapaschalis]

One day I went to Confession to a priest I barely knew. After I came out I got Nudged.

So I asked him and now he's my director. Sometimes you don't need to think about "what you look for"

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1703160' date='Nov 17 2008, 03:22 AM']One day I went to Confession to a priest I barely knew. After I came out I got Nudged.

So I asked him and now he's my director. Sometimes you don't need to think about "what you look for" [/quote]

Very true! Kind of like St. Faustina too. She didn't really look. He just appeared and she just knew because I guess she was "nudged" too.

[tinytherese]

I posted about this same topic in the transmundane lane. A good spiritual director is hard to come by. I do have one that I correspond through email with a woman who is a third order carmelite. She's given me good advice so far. It would just be nice to meet with one face to face. I once heard it suggested on a previous thread to send a letter to a community of monks and to request spiritual direction with one and then correspond through writing.

[osapientia]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1703146' date='Nov 17 2008, 02:52 AM']I also think it is good for a priest to be the Spiritual Director for a woman because of her weaknesses ... for a man to guide her balances everything out.

St. Francis de Sales says that a woman should have a male (priest) as her director because of the weaknesses of the female character.[/quote]

Well then for the sake of balancing out, ought a man go to a woman because of the weaknesses in the male character?

[Carmeliteheart726]

[quote name='SRLAUREL' post='1703115' date='Nov 17 2008, 01:06 AM']The truth is that if you are ONLY looking at people who wear habits you are missing some of the most gifted directors around, and if you are avoiding the directors people refer you to [u]on such a basis [/u]you are wasting everyone's time in even asking for recommendations. Ask instead for someone who will confirm your own world view, never challenge you, etc. The fact is ANY [i]competent[/i] director, habited or not, will assist you in making the RIGHT and INSPIRED decisions for yourself. NOTE WELL, that YOU make the decisions not they. They will NOT discourage you from entering a community which is traditional because they do not belong to one themselves, nor will they encourage you to enter their own. (Especially that will NEVER happen!) But they WILL help you learn to listen and respond to the Holy Spirit, to pray better, and make decision which are informed, mature, and loving.

Meanwhile, most priests do not do spiritual direction (I say that as a director who works with priests). Hearing confessions and doing direction are vastly different ministries and while they complement each other, most priests have neither the training nor time. What many directees find is having a different director from their confessor enriches both experiences because of the differences in the two practices. These are not only my own feelings, they have been confirmed by a number of my own clients, several of whom thought having a priest for both functions was the way to go, but of course it is a personal matter.

Most of us find spiritual direction is invaluable to any discernment process. Personally, I would say it is a sine qua non, especially for someone seriously considering religious/consecrated life in any form. Direction allows a person to come to greater knowledge of themselves and the way God works (and often, is prohibitted from working) in their lives. Generally it is a long term relationship, not geared merely to problem solving (though this will also occur) or to short term conclusions (though these too will also occur). Honesty with ourselves and God often requires the assistance of someone who sees us with an honest and objective eye --- hence my comments about seeking only a director who wears a habit or shares your own world view, etc.(Remember, I am speaking about a competent director --- someone with experience, training, etc who prays well (listens to eh Spirit) and knows how to assist others in this realm, and one who is often recommended by priests and religious who know this because they have worked with him/her or know people who have.)

Sincerely,
Sister Laurel, erem dio
Stillsong Hermitage
[url="http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com"]http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com[/url][/quote]

Since it is up to me to choose my own spiritual director, and it should be one that I am comfortable with, than I feel it is my choice to choose between a non-habited sister or a one that is habited, or even a priest. I am not saying that ALL non-habited sisters are horrible, but it is MY choice. Just because a priest gives me a recommendation does not mean I have to use it. Again, it's MY choice. I have asked the Holy Spirit for guidance so I don't end up being picky, and this is what the Holy Spirit has guided me to do:

Look for a holy priest to help my discernment.

Sr. Laurel, I was not posting this to be judgmental. It is simply my opinion. I'm sorry if I have offended you, as that was not my intention, nor was it my intention to say that all non-habited sisters are terrible.

Since I am looking at a very traditional order, I would prefer one who understands that the habit is important. If I go to a non-habited sister and tell her this, chances are she will try to tell me that having a habit is not important, but to me, it is.

That being said, I have not asked for any more recommendations since receiving the second one for that sister. They only gave me her name because she was close (in that parish). I would rather, in my opinion, speak to a priest.

[Sister_Laurel]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1703146' date='Nov 16 2008, 11:52 PM']I also think it is good for a priest to be the Spiritual Director for a woman because of her weaknesses ... for a man to guide her balances everything out.

St. Francis de Sales says that a woman should have a male (priest) as her director because of the weaknesses of the female character.[/quote]

As much as I like St Francis de Sales and his Salesian Oblates (those I have met are amazing gentlemen and are a real pleasure to know), this bit of dated cultural bias is nonsense. It is based on a view of women we have left behind, but also on a model of spiritual direction which often infantilizes rather than resulting in spiritual maturity. It too has largely been rejected as valid. Let me be clear that a woman can gain a lot from working with a man, just as men (including priests) can and do gain a lot working with women (yes, I direct priests so this too is something I know firsthand), but this statement of de Sales does not address that truth. In working with the opposite sex, we develop different kinds/syles of intimacies, are challenged in different ways, and those things can bring growth and psychosexual integration which differs from some of what can be achieved in same sex relationships.

There are a number of reasons a woman getting direction might do better with a woman, especially until really significant growth or healing have been achieved. The point, however is whether one should only accept a priest as a director and the truth remains that in general priests are not trained as directors but as confessors. They are different ministries and require different talents and training. Gone are the days when priests could be said to do spiritual direction simply because they could hear a confession and give authoritative advice or "bind in obedience." As noted above, that model of "spiritual direction," thankfully, is generally no longer recognized as valid --- and I say that [u]because[/u] other models are far more fruitful spiritually. In any case, if one decides one wants to work with a priest, one should be sure he is trained and experienced in spiritual direction itself. ordinarily this means work in graduate programs beyond his seminary work and also work under and access to a supervisor for some time.

Sincerely,
Sister Laurel M O'Neal, erem dio
Stillsong Hermitage
[url="http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com"]http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com[/url]

[shortnun]

[quote name='SRLAUREL' post='1703291' date='Nov 17 2008, 01:47 PM']The point, however is whether one should only accept a priest as a director and the truth remains that in general [b]priests are not trained as directors but as confessors. They are different ministries and require different talents and training.[/b] ..... In any case, if one decides one wants to work with a priest, one should be sure he is trained and experienced in spiritual direction itself. ordinarily this means work in graduate programs beyond his seminary work and also work under and access to a supervisor for some time.[/quote]
(Emphasis mine.) Excellent points you mention, Sister.

[praying4carmel]

Habited or No, the Holy Spirit does the work. My Unhabited Sister from Dominicans of Springfield IL is wonderful, I would not trade her in for anything.

Sinsinawa Dominicans are fine too.

Just my 2Cents.

P. Nancy