Hoax: Palin Thought Africa Was A Country

[Justin86]

What makes you say that?

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1700994' date='Nov 14 2008, 12:13 AM']Take comfort in the fact that the "story" didn't break until after the election. (It's also likely that the a similar percentage of impressionable people believed that Obama was a secretly devout Muslim.)[/quote]

it isn't comforting, because in both cases, millions still allowed the media to manipulate their minds...

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1701491' date='Nov 14 2008, 06:51 PM']You mean like the Georgia congressman comparing Obama to Hitler? Or the thousands of Americans who believe(d) that Obama is/was a Muslim?[/quote]

The Congressman has apologized for comparing Obama to Hitler. [url="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/12/congressman-sorry-for-likening-obama-to-hitler/"]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...bama-to-hitler/[/url]

As for Americans thinking Obama is a secret Muslim I never seen evidence that he is. There is good evidence that Obama was raised a Muslim however.

[Adrestia]

Here's another example:

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1702042' date='Nov 15 2008, 12:20 PM']There is good evidence that Obama was raised a Muslim however.[/quote]

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1702042' date='Nov 15 2008, 01:20 PM']The Congressman has apologized for comparing Obama to Hitler. [url="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/12/congressman-sorry-for-likening-obama-to-hitler/"]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/...bama-to-hitler/[/url].[/quote]

Didn't see that. Thanks bro.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1702212' date='Nov 15 2008, 04:12 PM']Here's another example:[/quote]

I'm sorry if historical facts offend you. Obama's father was Muslim, Obama does have a muslim name, Obama attended a school that was a Muslim only school, amongst other things. Again likely he was raised Muslim then converted to Christianity then fell away when he supported the murder of Children.

Edited November 15, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[XIX]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1702212' date='Nov 15 2008, 04:12 PM']Here's another example:[/quote]
Be fair. There is a good chance that Obama was raised as a Muslim--at least nominally speaking. That's essentially irrelevant because he obviously holds no adherence to Islamic teaching, so he's definitely not a Muslim now. But you can't just ridicule someone for pointing out that Obama was likely [i]raised[/i] Muslim.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1702263' date='Nov 15 2008, 06:06 PM']I'm sorry if historical facts offend you. Obama's father was Muslim, Obama does have a muslim name, Obama attended a school that was a Muslim only school, amongst other things. Again likely he was raised Muslim then converted to Christianity then fell away when he supported the murder of Children.[/quote]
Obama was not raised by his father. (Even if he was, a devout Muslim would not have married an atheist American woman.)

His name is Muslim... so what? I have a Jewish name, but I have never been Jewish.

Obama [i]never [/i]attended a "Muslim only" school. He did, however, attend a Catholic school before leaving Indonesia.

Those are the facts.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1702018' date='Nov 15 2008, 11:47 AM']it isn't comforting, because in both cases, millions still allowed the media to manipulate their minds...[/quote]
touché

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1703457' date='Nov 17 2008, 05:03 PM']Obama was not raised by his father. (Even if he was, a devout Muslim would not have married an atheist American woman.)

His name is Muslim... so what? I have a Jewish name, but I have never been Jewish.

Obama [i]never [/i]attended a "Muslim only" school. He did, however, attend a Catholic school before leaving Indonesia.

Those are the facts.[/quote]

I conten he was likely raised Muslim, both his father and step father where Muslim. And at this 'public school' Islamic children study and prayed to the god of Islam, and Christians studied and prayed to God, and others worshiped and studied their gods.

On page 154 of “Dreams From My Father,” Obama writes:

“In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during the Koranic studies.”


[url="http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5354"]Confirmed: Barack Obama Practiced Islam[/url]
by Daniel Pipes

In a recent analysis, "Was Barack Obama a Muslim?" I surveyed available evidence and found it suggests "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." In response, David Brock's organization, Media Matters for America (MMfA), which calls itself a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media," has criticized one of my sources of information.

MMfA contends in "Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood," that "key aspects" of a March 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times article I quoted were later challenged by another newspaper account, "History of schooling distorted," by Kim Barker in the Chicago Tribune on March 25.

Falsehood? That's a strong word.

To assess MMfA's claim, let's review its preferred article and examine what Barker has to say on four topics related to Obama's Indonesian years, 1967-71:

1. His attendance at a Catholic school;
2. His attendance at a public school;
3. His step-father, Lolo Soetoro; and
4. His friend, Zulfan Adi.

To start with, about the Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, which Obama attended 1967-70 (words in square brackets are added by me):

Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades. At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said [Israella Pareira] Darmawan, Obama's former [1st-grade] teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.

The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia [including by the Los Angeles Times], also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.

Barack Obama with his public school classmates in Indonesia.
About Obama's time at a public elementary school, 1970-71, variously known as the Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1 or the Basuki school, Barker writes:

When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.

During a recent visit to this public school, Barker found that

Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard. "The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity," said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. "And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It's always been like that."

About Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro and his religiosity, Barker writes:

In their first neighborhood, Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said. But Soetoro usually was too busy working, first for the Indonesian army and later for a Western oil company. "Sometimes Lolo went to the mosque to pray, but he rarely socialized with people," said Fermina Katarina Sinaga, Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family. "Rarely, Barry [a nickname for Barack] went to the mosque with Lolo."

Barker learned from his friends and family that Lolo Soetoro, who died in 1987, was "much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim" and "hardly the image of a pious Muslim."

His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. "He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family," Trisulo recalled.

As for Zulfan Adi, cited in the Los Angeles Times piece:

Zulfan Adi, a former neighborhood playmate of Obama's who has been cited in news reports as saying Obama regularly attended Friday prayers with Soetoro, told the Tribune he was not certain about that when pressed about his recollections. He only knew Obama for a few months, during 1970, when his family moved to the neighborhood.

Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:

* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.

All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.

In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."

Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.

Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.

[XIX]

You know, the importance of what you are all talking about and a token will get you a ride at the subway.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='XIX' post='1703721' date='Nov 17 2008, 11:29 PM']You know, the importance of what you are all talking about and a token will get you a ride at the subway. [/quote]

[img]http://www.reallifephotos.org/wp-content/photos/2008_05/wrong.jpg[/img]

[XIX]

[Paddington]

^^ I shoulda voted for the Ocho Cinco. Too late.

But, yea, Palin doesn't know her shapes and colors either from what I understand.

[Justin86]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1702212' date='Nov 16 2008, 05:12 AM']Here's another example:[/quote]
Uhhh...Obama was definitely raised a Muslim. His school records in Indonesia list him as one.

Really, how did you not know that?

Edited November 19, 2008 by Justin86