Refusing A Heart Transplant

[Slappo]

Considering this is neither euthanasia nor suicide... the second half of your comment isn't pertinent to whether or not this particular statement of dying with dignity can be said to be garbage or not.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1702378' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:01 PM']Considering this is neither euthanasia nor suicide... the second half of your comment isn't pertinent to whether or not this particular statement of dying with dignity can be said to be garbage or not.[/quote]
Christians should never speak of a "dignified" death, because death is connected to Satan, the father of lies. The human person, in spite of suffering and death, is dignified, because he is created in the image of God.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1702380' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:03 PM']Christians should never speak of a "dignified" death, because death is connected to Satan, the father of lies. The human person, in spite of suffering and death, is dignified, because he is created in the image of God.[/quote]

That doesn't change the fact that the second half of your last statement was not at all pertinent to the topic and whether or not the particular girl could rightly say she wanted to die a dignified death.

I didn't argue for or against either side in my post you responded to.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1702382' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:11 PM']That doesn't change the fact that the second half of your last statement was not at all pertinent to the topic and whether or not the particular girl could rightly say she wanted to die a dignified death.

I didn't argue for or against either side in my post you responded to. [/quote]
What I have said is pertinent, because it is part of the agenda to allow physician assisted suicide.

The girl in question has dignity because she is created in the image of God, and not because she is going to die.

[Apotheoun]

The ongoing disintegration of Christian theological knowledge in the Western world is truly sad.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1702376' date='Nov 15 2008, 09:50 PM']I do not buy into the garbage promoted by liberal groups that say that suicide / euthanasia gives one a "dignified" death. Moreover, in the case of euthanasia it turns the one who does the killing into anything but dignified.[/quote]


How is that pertinent to whether or not [b]this particular girl[/b] will die a dignified death. There is no physician assisted suicide, there is no straight up suicide, there is a legitimately moral refusal of extraordinary health care.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1702385' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:16 PM']The ongoing disintegration of Christian theological knowledge in the Western world is truly sad.[/quote]

I [u][b]really[/b][/u] hope that wasn't directed towards me.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1702389' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:19 PM']How is that pertinent to whether or not [b]this particular girl[/b] will die a dignified death. There is no physician assisted suicide, there is no straight up suicide, there is a legitimately moral refusal of extraordinary health care.[/quote]
Because the phrase is part of the propaganda being put out by groups like the Hemlock Society. This girl is not going to "die with dignity," she is going to live with dignity as a child of God until her natural death.

[Justin86]

On the part of "death with dignity", I would have to agree with Apotheon. I was never a big fan of the term myself.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1702391' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:20 PM']I [u][b]really[/b][/u] hope that wasn't directed towards me.[/quote]
Your hope is misplaced.

[Apotheoun]

Satan caused death, and so there is nothing dignified about it.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1702395' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:21 PM']Your hope is misplaced.[/quote]

Except that I hope for the dignity of all persons to be upheld and a personal dig at someone would not uphold his dignity and could therefore be considered sinful if not at least a failure to achieve the greatest good. I would hope that the greatest good is always achieved and in doing so, when I see what appears to be a lesser good, I can have hope that I am mistaken in my judgment.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1702399' date='Nov 15 2008, 10:30 PM']Except that I hope for the dignity of all persons to be upheld and a personal dig at someone would not uphold his dignity and could therefore be considered sinful if not at least a failure to achieve the greatest good. I would hope that the greatest good is always achieved and in doing so, when I see what appears to be a lesser good, I can have hope that I am mistaken in my judgment.[/quote]
You have once again missed the point. A person does not lose his dignity by making a mistake. Nor does he receive his dignity from other human beings. A man has dignity because he is created in the image of God.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1702392' date='Nov 15 2008, 09:20 PM']Because the phrase is part of the propaganda being put out by groups like the Hemlock Society. This girl is not going to "die with dignity," she is going to live with dignity as a child of God until her natural death.[/quote]

Regardless of the propaganda of the phrase dignity with death, the way you posed your phrase was that you do not believe the garbage that those society's put out on assisted suicide et al being a dignified death. That in itself however, does not directly relate to this thread at all since even with a skewed definition of dignity, no Catholic could uphold that suicide be dignified.

The question is whether or not there is such thing as a dignified death. Posing Euthanasia and suicide as an argument against there being such thing as dignified death really won't buy any grounds in an argument against the terminology since any good standing Catholic who knew even the most basic morals of the Church would know that suicide and euthanasia are intrinsic evils and therefore could never be considered dignified.

This is a case where no moral evil, let alone intrinsic moral evil is present, and therefore imposing such immoral acts as proving the falsity of the term dignified death hold no weight.

[Apotheoun]

Satan caused death, and so there is no dignity in death.

As scripture says:

Do not invite death by the error of your life,
nor bring on destruction by the works of your hands;
because God did not make death,
and He does not delight in the death of the living.
For He created all things that they might exist,
and the generative forces of the world are wholesome,
and there is no destructive poison in them;
and the dominion of Hades is not on earth.
For righteousness is immortal.