Chivalry

[Excelsior1027]

Archbishop Fulton Sheen once explained in one of his talks that the reason a man is naturally chivalrous towards a woman is not because he believes that she is physically weaker, but it is because of the awe that he feels in the presence of the great mystery—that is, the mystery of the woman—the fact that she can nurture life within her.

And no, I doubt that this exact thought goes through the head of a man when he is acting chivalrous towards a woman, like when he is holding the door open for her. But that's the point, it's something deeper than conscious thought.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1699362' date='Nov 11 2008, 01:57 AM']Archbishop Fulton Sheen once explained in one of his talks that the reason a man is naturally chivalrous towards a woman is not because he believes that she is physically weaker, but it is because of the awe that he feels in the presence of the great mystery—that is, the mystery of the woman—the fact that she can nurture life within her.

And no, I doubt that this exact thought goes through the head of a man when he is acting chivalrous towards a woman, like when he is holding the door open for her. But that's the point, it's something deeper than conscious thought.[/quote]

[Maximilianus]

Is Chivalry dead...well, I haven't sharpened my sword in a while and I lack any proper armor...or a horse...I have a cool heraldic device I'm working on though..but it's unofficial.
Oh you mean...




[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1699279' date='Nov 11 2008, 12:01 AM']Yeah, I've heard you say this before. "Men are here to protect women." When a guy "saves" [i]his[/i] girl?

So I can't protect myself?[/quote]

Okay, based on this post, the real question is
"Do women want men to be chivalrous?"




BTW chivalry entails more than just opening doors for dames...it also means defending the innocent, defending the Church, being civil to you enemies, keeping your word etc.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1699362' date='Nov 11 2008, 02:57 AM']Archbishop Fulton Sheen once explained in one of his talks that the reason a man is naturally chivalrous towards a woman is not because he believes that she is physically weaker, but it is because of the awe that he feels in the presence of the great mystery—that is, the mystery of the woman—the fact that she can nurture life within her.

And no, I doubt that this exact thought goes through the head of a man when he is acting chivalrous towards a woman, like when he is holding the door open for her. But that's the point, it's something deeper than conscious thought.[/quote]

But I would like to think that a man thinks more of a woman - something more than unconsciously recognizing her as a "baby maker."


[quote name='Maximilianus' post='1699369' date='Nov 11 2008, 03:36 AM']Okay, based on this post, the real question is
"Do women want men to be chivalrous?"[/quote]

Which goes back to what I said earlier, "chivalry" must be defined first. Some people define it different ways.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1699362' date='Nov 11 2008, 01:57 AM']Archbishop Fulton Sheen once explained in one of his talks that the reason a man is naturally chivalrous towards a woman is not because he believes that she is physically weaker, but it is because of the awe that he feels in the presence of the great mystery—that is, the mystery of the woman—the fact that she can nurture life within her.

And no, I doubt that this exact thought goes through the head of a man when he is acting chivalrous towards a woman, like when he is holding the door open for her. But that's the point, it's something deeper than conscious thought.[/quote]


[quote name='Maximilianus' post='1699369' date='Nov 11 2008, 02:36 AM']Is Chivalry dead...well, I haven't sharpened my sword in a while and I lack any proper armor...or a horse...I have a cool heraldic device I'm working on though..but it's unofficial.
Oh you mean...






Okay, based on this post, the real question is
"Do women want men to be chivalrous?"




BTW chivalry entails more than just opening doors for dames...it also means defending the innocent, defending the Church, being civil to you enemies, keeping your word etc.
[/quote]


SOOO true. So true. Men can easily forget the the whole package in both the situations of these posts.... Men need to remember the mystery in the first, and the whole duty in the second.

[Seven77]

Chivalry is a manly virtue that greatly respects the dignity of women.

HCF, how is a woman a "baby maker" by herself anyway? lol. But i think i get your point. I just want to say this:

Anybody who thinks of a woman as an object is certainly not chivalrous. However being a bearer of life is one of the great roles women are called to. Now, if i as a man show honor to a woman because of that fact---what's wrong with that?

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1699461' date='Nov 11 2008, 10:57 AM']But I would like to think that a man thinks more of a woman - something more than unconsciously recognizing her as a "baby maker."




Which goes back to what I said earlier, "chivalry" must be defined first. Some people define it different ways.[/quote]
It's not necessarily baby-making. Nuns are utmost mysterious and admirable. They nurture a different sort of life. Chaste women discerning nurture a unique life within them.

[Galloglasses' Alt]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1699461' date='Nov 11 2008, 10:57 AM']But I would like to think that a man thinks more of a woman - something more than unconsciously recognizing her as a "baby maker."




Which goes back to what I said earlier, "chivalry" must be defined first. Some people define it different ways.[/quote]


No they don't, people 'pick' up on the different aspects of Chivalry and go from there as if they are definitions. Like Maximilianus stated, Chivalry is more then how men should act around or treat members of the opposite sex. (actually, this entire thread is focusing on just this one part of Chivalry, which is important.

Chivalry is at once a code of conduct, of Honour, relations and behaviour all at once and applies explicitely to the male specifically because Men, byt nature are more destructive of the two sexes. (in reality, Chivalry goes back into the Dark ages, jsut before the first crusades were Knights ran wild, looting and sacking villages and anarchy reigned amongst Christendom, that is of course until the Church took charge of things and scared the Knights witless, making each one swear on their honour to not do certain deeds, chivalry devleoped from here and came to full glory in Knightly sense during the high middle ages, 'In days of old when Knights were bold'), It applies to how a man should conduct himself publically and privately with the uptmost honour and self respect, and treat others the same, respecting your enemy, and of course, treating womenfolk as something greater then themselves.

The ideas of 'Not kicking someone when they're down', 'Never punch someone from behind', 'Boys shouldn't ever hit girls', devloped, or should I say, degressed from Chivalry. (I need not remind you people here that most men these days pay no heed to honour of any kind).

Also, Icelandic, you're sounding very defensive over this issue, Chivalry is more of demanding the man to do duties that he should be honour bound to do anyway. This includes, amongst many others, incredible respect for the woman. It is not, as you seem to be hinting at, an idea that makes men think that women are inherently inferior.

[missionseeker]

I personally cannot understand why women get upset at this. Yes, I can see some guys sometimes taking it to far. But honestly... I'd rather a guy opened the door for me than stared at my chest or made comments about my body. The one action shows respect, not even necessarily regarding my sex, but just as a person. I mean, I've held doors for guys, not cuz I think I am supperior but because they are walking behind me and coming towards the door. The other action doesn't even treat me as a person, but just an object for gratification.



I'd much prefer to have the door opened (since that seems to apparently be a main issue) than be gawked at.

[Excelsior1027]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1699461' date='Nov 11 2008, 10:57 AM']But I would like to think that a man thinks more of a woman - something more than unconsciously recognizing her as a "baby maker."[/quote]
I think you totally misunderstood what Fulton Sheen was saying there. It's not recognizing a woman as a "baby maker," using that term makes her sound like an object. He was talking about the mystery of the extremely special and unique [i]dignity[/i] that God gave every woman. Somewhere deep down, men recognize that special dignity as something to be honored and held in awe.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Excelsior1027

[mcts]

I personally love it when a guy is chivalrous. It shows that he is thinking of someone other than himself. When a guy is chivalrous, though, i definitely make sure to say thank you so that he knows that he didn't go unnoticed.

[MIKolbe]

I think if the chivarly is rooted in respect and love, one would be foolish and prideful to look at it from a 'females are helpless' perspective.

Us guys know you can open doors, pull out chairs, fight for yourself, interceed on your own behalf. You don't need us to stand when you enter a room, crack your crab or lobster for you, pick the aisle seat when we really wanted it, bring you a flower on the anniversary we first met, sing a love song to you when we are oh-so-tone deaf...

We just.. umm.. love you.

[Archaeology cat]

I greatly appreciate chivalry. And I'm one of the most stubborn, independent people I know. But I recognise that men who do hold open doors, hold out an arm for me, walk on the outside of the kerb, and even order for me in a restaurant do this out of respect for me. And I greatly appreciate it. So thank you.

[jenna311]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1699598' date='Nov 11 2008, 04:18 PM']I greatly appreciate chivalry. And I'm one of the most stubborn, independent people I know. But I recognise that men who do hold open doors, hold out an arm for me, walk on the outside of the kerb, and even order for me in a restaurant do this out of respect for me. And I greatly appreciate it. So thank you. [/quote]


Me too!

This summer I went camping with a group of 6 guys, and there were four of us women. I have never been so impressed with a group of guys in my life.

One of them walked us to our tent at night, and told us that if we needed anything during the night, he would be by the fire all night and to come and get him. We were perfectly capable of making it through the night without being scared or needing help, of course, but it was a great offer.

The next day, we went hiking at the bottom of this canyon along the river. Three of the guys went with us, and they were so helpful the whole trip. They made sure that they picked ways across the river that we would all be able to make, and several times even stood in the middle of the river and offered a hand to help us. Again, we probably could have made it by ourselves.

The whole trip, the guys were so wonderful. We all knew each other pretty well at this point, so they knew that all of the girls were pretty tough and could have done anything the guys were doing on the trip.

When I thought about the trip afterward, I realized that being chivalrous certainly isn't about offering to open the door for a girl because she is 'too weak' to do it for herself, or anything like that. I realized that when men are truly being chivalrous, when they are truly being men, it allows us to become truly feminine.

By the end of the summer, through working with two of the guys for about 8 weeks, my friend and I had them pretty well trained about how to be chivalrous