Compulsory Community Service Plan?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697383' date='Nov 7 2008, 10:37 PM']One possibility is to build community service into the public school system. For example, you could have a "community service" class, where you do service projects.

I don't know about the college tax credit. Would that be payed with tax payer money?[/quote]
Of course it would be.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1697604' date='Nov 8 2008, 06:50 AM']As a high school teacher I think more emphasis should be placed on making sure that students can read and write. Any community service -- if made a part of a school program -- should be strictly voluntary.[/quote]
I was going to say the same thing. There was once a time when schools were created with the idea that everyone should know how to read, do math, learn some history, master the art of penmanship.... Somewhere along the way it became the place to get fed (two meals a day!) spend the afternoons, have your health care records maintained, learn about "social issues" etc. There is not longer a need for community, church or family... School is your one-stop shop.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1697604' date='Nov 8 2008, 07:50 AM']As a high school teacher I think more emphasis should be placed on making sure that students can read and write. Any community service -- if made a part of a school program -- should be strictly voluntary.[/quote]
Maybe public schools should be focused only on academics. But as long as they are the way they are, would a community service class be any different from gym class, art class, music class, etc.? I had to take those when I was in school, and I still learned how to read and write.

[Era Might]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1697621' date='Nov 8 2008, 09:56 AM']master the art of penmanship....[/quote]
The most useless tool since the horsewhip and buggy. We had to copy whole pages in cursive handwriting. Little did we know that we would be typing everything when we grew up.

[Hassan]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1697145' date='Nov 7 2008, 07:38 PM']Living on what?[/quote]


hope

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1697604' date='Nov 8 2008, 07:50 AM']Any community service -- if made a part of a school program -- should be strictly voluntary.[/quote]


why?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697646' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:43 AM']The most useless tool since the horsewhip and buggy. We had to copy whole pages in cursive handwriting. Little did we know that we would be typing everything when we grew up. [/quote]
Until you have to actually fill out paperwork or something-- legibly... I did say that that was one of the original goals of school, btw. I agree that loopy/flowery script is not a very useful skill in this day and age, however legible writing still is.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697638' date='Nov 8 2008, 08:29 AM']Maybe public schools should be focused only on academics. But as long as they are the way they are, would a community service class be any different from gym class, art class, music class, etc.? I had to take those when I was in school, and I still learned how to read and write.[/quote]
Every student that enters the school I teach at has to go through "bonehead" English, because they do not know how to write well, and their reading comprehension is so poor that they cannot speak cogently about what they have read if it is at a level beyond the writings of Lemony Snicket.

[Era Might]

Would an hour a day working on community service impede their academic studies? I doubt it.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697698' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:14 AM']Would an hour a day working on community service impede their academic studies? I doubt it.[/quote]
Yes, I believe that it would.

As the Dean of Students at my school I work very hard just getting the male students to turn in their homework.

Edited November 8, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

A "community service class" is another one of the symbolism over substance programs of modern schools.

[Era Might]

Do you believe that students should do nothing during the day except study and do homework? How would community service impede their studies any more than playing sports or similar activities?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1697704' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:17 AM']Do you believe they should do nothing during the day except study and do homework? How would community service impede their studies any more than playing sports or other activities?[/quote]
I believe that they should come out of school knowing math (algebra through calculus), English, a foreign language (Latin is offered at the school I am at), ancient and medieval history, American history, basic theology (or even some type of philosophy if it is a secular school), a general science (e.g., physical geography or basic ecology) biology, chemistry, physics, a class in cultural geography, physical education (so that they are not couch potatoes), American government and economics, and by their senior year perhaps an AP level course in one of the above subjects. At the school I teach at I would be surprised if the students had the time to waste on a symbolic community service class. Besides, service to the community, like any virtuous activity, only has value it if is given freely (i.e., not under compulsion). Virtue, like love, cannot be forced and be real.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1697714' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:26 PM']physical education (so that they are not couch potatoes)[/quote]
I don't see how physical education fits in with your view of a school. You said that community service would impede academic studies. How then does gym class not impede academic studies?

[quote]Besides, service to the community, like any virtuous activity, only has value it if is given freely (i.e., not under compulsion). Virtue, like love, cannot be forced and be real.[/quote]
Virtue cannot be forced, but the opportunity for virtue can be. Citizens who are required to serve on jury duty, for example, can still perform their service virtuously.

[Apotheoun]

The so-called "community service programs" run by public schools are a sham, and they have the difficulty of political correctness, which means that they normally promote values inimical to the Catholic faith. Catholic parents who have children at a public school should do all that they can to keep their children out of the "health" classes offered at public school, while also keeping them out of the communist (pardon me "community") service programs sponsored by the public education system.

The community service programs at most schools are simply a very progressive and intrusive form of the "nannification" of American eduction.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1697720' date='Nov 8 2008, 12:33 PM']The so-called "community service programs" run by public schools are a sham, and they have the difficulty of political correctness, which means that they normally promote values inimical to the Catholic faith.[/quote]
That is a separate issue. Whether community service programs are well-run is a different question from whether students should be involved in some kind of community service. A Catholic school could require community service that is entirely consistent with Catholic principles.