1992 Carmelite Constitution

[tinytherese]

If you're looking for carmels under the 1990 constitution they're listed here.


[url="http://carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm"]http://carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm[/url]

[Saint Therese]

That's interesting. The one and only Carmel I visited, I had a similar reaction from Rev. Mother.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='TradMom' post='1696923' date='Nov 7 2008, 04:15 PM']if one is looking for a "real" cloistered life they can be quite surprised (if they don't check the website) that the nuns are all over the internet, breaking enclosure in that way (not to mention other activities). That is fine, naturally, if you are comfortable with that and you want that,[/quote]

Can we retire the phrase "all over the internet?" This is not the first time I've heard that exact same phrase. Recently I saw it used by another poster, in a critical vein, directed towards a specific consecrated religious. A Summit Dominican, to be specific. I personally do not know of any cloistered nuns "all over the internet," that is, viewing websites outside of their assigned duties.

I also take issue with the use of the phrase "real" cloistered life." Let's be frank. You've been critical in the recent of past of how the Summit Dominicans have chosen to integrate internet use into their lives. What you say here comes across to me as saying they're not leading "real" cloistered lives, and if someone is "comfortable with that" and "wants that" then that person is choosing a less than "real" cloistered life. I appreciate that you yourself put "real" in quotation marks. But put in the context of the rest of your statement and your previous posts ... well.

You are perfectly free, of course, to say whatever you like. This is a discussion forum. I just want you to know how some of what you are saying is coming across, at least to me. People have every right to know what they want in religious life, what attracts them, etc. But what I am hearing ... is a tone of disdain for everything else. You can know what you want and discuss the virtues of what attracts you without criticizing everything else.

I know I am probably turning into one of "those people" who are professional sticks in the mud. We are mostly adults here and don't have to censor ourselves or play patty-cake with language. Nevertheless, I think some thoughtful word choice is in order at this particular place. We aren't talking about clubs here or baseball teams. We're discussing families. Families which, for the most part, cannot be here to explain or defend themselves.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1697428' date='Nov 7 2008, 11:04 PM']Can we retire the phrase "all over the internet?" This is not the first time I've heard that exact same phrase. Recently I saw it used by another poster, in a critical vein, directed towards a specific consecrated religious. A Summit Dominican, to be specific. I personally do not know of any cloistered nuns "all over the internet," that is, viewing websites outside of their assigned duties.

I also take issue with the use of the phrase "real" cloistered life." Let's be frank. You've been critical in the recent of past of how the Summit Dominicans have chosen to integrate internet use into their lives. What you say here comes across to me as saying they're not leading "real" cloistered lives, and if someone is "comfortable with that" and "wants that" then that person is choosing a less than "real" cloistered life. I appreciate that you yourself put "real" in quotation marks. But put in the context of the rest of your statement and your previous posts ... well.

You are perfectly free, of course, to say whatever you like. This is a discussion forum. I just want you to know how some of what you are saying is coming across, at least to me. People have every right to know what they want in religious life, what attracts them, etc. But what I am hearing ... is a tone of disdain for everything else. You can know what you want and discuss the virtues of what attracts you without criticizing everything else.

I know I am probably turning into one of "those people" who are professional sticks in the mud. We are mostly adults here and don't have to censor ourselves or play patty-cake with language. Nevertheless, I think some thoughtful word choice is in order at this particular place. We aren't talking about clubs here or baseball teams. We're discussing families. Families which, for the most part, cannot be here to explain or defend themselves.[/quote]
Yes.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1697428' date='Nov 8 2008, 06:04 AM']Can we retire the phrase "all over the internet?" This is not the first time I've heard that exact same phrase. Recently I saw it used by another poster, in a critical vein, directed towards a specific consecrated religious. A Summit Dominican, to be specific. I personally do not know of any cloistered nuns "all over the internet," that is, viewing websites outside of their assigned duties.

I also take issue with the use of the phrase "real" cloistered life." Let's be frank. You've been critical in the recent of past of how the Summit Dominicans have chosen to integrate internet use into their lives. What you say here comes across to me as saying they're not leading "real" cloistered lives, and if someone is "comfortable with that" and "wants that" then that person is choosing a less than "real" cloistered life. I appreciate that you yourself put "real" in quotation marks. But put in the context of the rest of your statement and your previous posts ... well.

You are perfectly free, of course, to say whatever you like. This is a discussion forum. I just want you to know how some of what you are saying is coming across, at least to me. People have every right to know what they want in religious life, what attracts them, etc. But what I am hearing ... is a tone of disdain for everything else. You can know what you want and discuss the virtues of what attracts you without criticizing everything else.

I know I am probably turning into one of "those people" who are professional sticks in the mud. We are mostly adults here and don't have to censor ourselves or play patty-cake with language. Nevertheless, I think some thoughtful word choice is in order at this particular place. We aren't talking about clubs here or baseball teams. We're discussing families. Families which, for the most part, cannot be here to explain or defend themselves.[/quote]

You express this very well, Lilllabettt. Thank you. I share your concerns but could not have worded them as well as this.

[Carmeliteheart726]

[quote name='MandyKhatoon' post='1697091' date='Nov 7 2008, 06:40 PM']If I'm called to enter Carmel one day I know EXACTLY which Carmel I would enter: Carmel of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in Valparaiso, NE.[/quote]

That place is so beautiful! It's at the very top of my list of Carmels to check out. Something must be wonderful about them because out of all the Carmels I've thought about that are traditional, they are the ones booming with the most vocations! So much so, that they are having to consider making a new formation order because of all the girls in the cloister (more than 21). I want to go there after the New Year, but I have to write the Mother Prioress to get permission and start correspondence.

[TotusTuusMaria]

I talked to Mother again last night and she couldn't have been kinder. She understood everything so well, so I am just going to have to say I misheard her. I asked her to explain the Constitutions to me and she was telling me everything, and she seemed like she understood very well. The Carmel does follow the 1991 Constitution, and she gave me the reason why. She explained to me that they wanted very much to be under the friars, as St. Teresa had desired. She said the friars had never led them down the wrong road. I think this is a very good reason. They are in a very good association, and seem so lovely. Although she did not say it so bluntly (she was very gentle and good) I don't think she understood why the nuns who chose to follow the 1990 did. That was just the impression I got. She was good though and I might consider visiting... I don't know.

EDIT: While she never exactly said she followed the 1991, she said there were two constitutions and she made it clear they didn't follow the first, 1990.

Edited November 8, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[Sister_Laurel]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1697072' date='Nov 7 2008, 03:29 PM']The sad thing is that there even some communities who don't like a lot of questions asked! This happened recently with me and a Carmel I was writing. The first few emails were great, the Mother was nice, open friendly and asked me to come and visit. So I thought I might but I needed to find somethings out before I did so. I asked a few questions going by what I saw on their website and things that weren't addressed in their website and I did ask VERY nice.

So the next thing I know, I'm getting an email with "your are not right for us, etc."! I asked about their horarium that they mailed me. They had 3-4 Divine Office hours being said privately by the sisters so I asked about that. One email had mentioned how they were so busy with their income work, so I was wondering do they say these offices privately because the sisters can speed thru them so they can get back to work or are they said beautifully, solemnly in the hermitages they have? They had a sister playing guitar while the sisters are in choir saying the office - so I asked what this was - folksey music or what? And then some others.[/quote]

You know, there are a variety of ways of praying the Office solemnly and beautifully and it is quite usual for hermits in Lauras (or communities with hermits/hermitages) to pray just the major hours (Lauds, Vespers, Compline, Vigils) together leaving the minor ones up to the individuals to pray as they choose. To assume they do this because they are so busy they need to "speed though" the office to get back to work would be offensive (and, I am sorry, but to ask about it assumes it could be true). I can't think of a nice way to ask such a question!

In cell or in chapel one may chant office a capella, use a guitar, or harp, or keyboard to accompany or assist, etc. Someone using folk (NOT folksey) settings and instruments might be far and away more solemn and beautiful than Gregorian chant at any one point, and there are settings of the psalms today which are quite fine contemporary versions. Also remember that the minor offices, especially done in choir, rarely take more than 5-10 minutes no matter what; many monastics recite them from memory right where they stand during the work day. Doing them in cell actually tends to allow more time for reflection, for changes in tempi (slower, more pauses, repetition when something strikes one especially), etc. It is as apt to foster increased reverence/solemnity than anything else.

Liturgy is a living reality and beauty is a function of reverence, not simply of music type or setting. Neither is reverence a one-key, one-style only matter. God does not limit himself in this way and learning to listen to and for him, along with learning to really praise him with our whole heart requires some openness, and often some movement outside our own comfort zones, especially in community.

Sincerely,
Sister Laurel M O'Neal, erem dio
Stillsong Hermitage
[url="http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com"]http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com[/url]