Can You Be Pro-life But Not Want Abortions Illegal?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1694493' date='Nov 5 2008, 12:00 PM']If you believe abortion is immoral then you believe the unborn child is person.

If you believe the unborn child is person then you would have to believe that the constitution allows women to kill people.

If you believe the constitution allows citizens to kill innocent people, then there would be no conflict.

That is illogical. If you are promoting this argument, then in theory, we can believe that the constitution allows anything, and therefore, all laws are pointless.[/quote]
The problem is, the Constitution does not mention anything about unborn babies. So you may believe it's immoral, but the law of the land in the U.S. makes no judgments about it.

[KnewInTheTrinity]

Pro-life means you are against abortions... no matter what the reason, you do not think they are right/acceptable/moral/etc.
If you personally wouldn't get one, that doesn't mean that you are pro-life. It just means you would not have that done to you...

I don't see the confusion that is being aroused.

[Didymus]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1694481' date='Nov 5 2008, 12:44 PM']All laws are based on some moral imperative.[/quote]

I have no moral imperative to drive 30 rather than 34 miles an hour in my neighborhood, save perhaps that it is the law.

[philothea]

In a theoretical sense, I think you could believe that the ideal political structure is somewhere in the libertarian-anarchist range. Therefore you would be opposed to most or all manmade laws. And you could simultaneously believe that abortion is wrong, I think.

However, this is all way, way, into theory. Most people are not extreme libertarians or anarchists, and if you're going to talk about a modern civilization with laws, if you're opposed to abortion, you should support its being illegal as well.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1694501' date='Nov 5 2008, 02:13 PM']The problem is, the Constitution does not mention anything about unborn babies. So you may believe it's immoral, but the law of the land in the U.S. makes no judgments about it.[/quote]
WHICH MEANS that the tenth ammendment applies... fancy how that little ammendment applies to absolutely anything and everything that the Constitution "makes no judments about"... if the Constitution makes no judgements, then every state in the union has the absolute right to either legalize or illegalize it according to the Constitution. The Supreme Law of the Land demands that this issue be left to the states or, if the states do not wish to do anything about it, to the individuals.

[MissyP89]

I said yes. Don't hate.

The way I look at it is like this: if abortion is outlawed, women are still going to find ways to abort their children--starvation, coathanger abortions, etc. These can lead to the death of the mother as well as the child.

Abortion is never going to go away. If it's made illegal, I think things will get worse, not better.

[Noel's angel]

That's like saying it's ok to use condoms to help prevent AIDS. People use that argument all the time. 'Oh, they're gonna have sex anyway...'

I voted 'no' (obviously) for reasons already stated on the previous page. If you are of the opinion that something is a sin, why on earth would you want it to be legal?

Edited November 5, 2008 by Noel's angel

[princessgianna]

I want people in their hearts to change so there would be no reason to outlaw because the idea to kill your own child is completely absurd. I voted yes and that is my reason. I am against abortion of all though you can make as many laws as you want but nothing matters till peoples hearts change.
Pax and prayers for all the unborn children.

[Guest]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1694774' date='Nov 5 2008, 08:11 PM']I want people in their hearts to change so there would be no reason to outlaw[/quote]

problem is as long as satan is allowed to roam freely there is always going to be people like this.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1694674' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:26 PM']WHICH MEANS that the tenth ammendment applies... fancy how that little ammendment applies to absolutely anything and everything that the Constitution "makes no judments about"... if the Constitution makes no judgements, then every state in the union has the absolute right to either legalize or illegalize it according to the Constitution. The Supreme Law of the Land demands that this issue be left to the states or, if the states do not wish to do anything about it, to the individuals.[/quote]
So then why does it matter if the President supports abortion rights or not?

[princessgianna]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1694817' date='Nov 5 2008, 07:38 PM']problem is as long as satan is allowed to roam freely there is always going to be people like this.[/quote]
very good point. did not think about that!
thanks i stand to be corrected on this.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1694867' date='Nov 5 2008, 07:27 PM']very good point. did not think about that!
thanks i stand to be corrected on this.[/quote]
The problem with THIS, though, is that you are concluding that civil laws somehow bind satan. In your world view, satan is going to roam no matter the laws. Do people still kill people even though it's illegal?

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1694872' date='Nov 5 2008, 08:29 PM']The problem with THIS, though, is that you are concluding that civil laws somehow bind satan. In your world view, satan is going to roam no matter the laws. Do people still kill people even though it's illegal?[/quote]

It is when the government prohibits abortion, it does send a clear moral message to the populous.

The idea of restricting the sexual activity or irresponsible people is too controversial, because then we would have to pay for our actions, and that wouldn't be fair.

shalom
bro mark

[Madame Vengier]

Interesting question because a couple months ago I was talking to a religious sister and I was shocked when she made the comment that she was pro-life but she doesn't think Roe should be overturned until "there is a viable alternative for women". I never heard such a rationale in my life.

[rkwright]

wow lots to reply to.
[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1694483' date='Nov 5 2008, 12:48 PM']However, that does not mean that every one of your morals should be a law. Not all morals are to be attributed to a particular religious tradition. For example, stopping at a red light. We do it to avoid chaos which can lead to accidents. Is that some kind of Catholic dogma?[/quote]
No, but it doesn't change the fact that all laws are based on some moral imperative.

In this case, if we have discovered that murder is wrong, then we should outlaw it. No one is talking about stopping at red lights... You want to debate if murder is immoral?

[quote name='Hassan' post='1694487' date='Nov 5 2008, 12:54 PM']Even Scalia does not claim it does.



it's tricky[/quote]

Forget Scalia. Hes wrong on this one. He'd probably tell me a black person isn't a person either.


[quote name='Hassan' post='1694498' date='Nov 5 2008, 01:10 PM']no. Simply because you beleive the unborn is a person does not mean the constitution recognises the unborn as a person and/or a citizen[/quote]

And thats the real injustice. We have some document telling us what things really are? Please. A person is a person and has rights. Those rights are inalienable. Remember that language?

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1694501' date='Nov 5 2008, 01:13 PM']The problem is, the Constitution does not mention anything about unborn babies. So you may believe it's immoral, but the law of the land in the U.S. makes no judgments about it.[/quote]

unborn babies=constitutional person. The constitution doesn't say murder is illegal either. That was left to the states.

[quote name='Didymus' post='1694557' date='Nov 5 2008, 02:54 PM']I have no moral imperative to drive 30 rather than 34 miles an hour in my neighborhood, save perhaps that it is the law.[/quote]

You may not have a moral imperative. But that law does. To protect other citizens.