How Hateful People Can Get When They Hear The Truth ...

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1693327' date='Nov 4 2008, 06:49 PM']+J.M.J.+
it sounded like a volunteer, not the youth minister. [/quote]

I would be concerned even if she was just a volunteer Lifeteen. From what I understand I know those volunteers play a bigger role in the ministry than what is the norm with those without LT. From what I understand volunteers take an oath of service and committment and are heavily involved. I know when I think of volunteers I am familiar with are always people in passing, but LT volunteers are very much everyday and steady involvement throughout everything LT.

[Seven77]

[quote name='Dave' post='1693321' date='Nov 4 2008, 07:46 PM']Speaking of the youth minister part ... should I report her to the LifeTeen head at her parish? Or should I just keep my mouth shut? For all I know, maybe the LifeTeen head is also an Obama voter ... but then again, maybe not.[/quote]

in this situation i think you should pray for her...that's a spiritual work of mercy.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1693194' date='Nov 4 2008, 06:03 PM']There might have been a more eloquent way of going about it, but not everyone is good with words.[/quote]

Apparently there is no such thing as an orthodox believer or a conservative thinker who is good with words.

Not that I claim to be, but I at least would like to try.

Edited November 6, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Dave]

Oh ... I found out recently that another practicing Catholic I knew -- a friend of mine -- voted for Obama. He gave the same old excuses, and then, when I got stern, he said, "F--- you, retard!" plus a few other insults (like "Nazi"). And he added he was glad he didn't talk anymore to the stupid Republicans that comprise our circle of friends at church. He ended by telling me to go f--- myself and to get a life. I think it's safe to say we're no longer friends.

Makes my previous run-in with that girl I mentioned earlier look like a pleasant conversation!

[rkwright]

I had a similar experience but it came out very pleasantly. Maybe try this instead....

Someone in my class mentioned that they were Catholic but didn't want to push their morals on others and that they were I guess a 'soft' pro-choice.

I facebooked them, and granted I hadn't had much contact with them before this...

I asked questions. I asked her first what exactly she meant by her comment... then I said how do you reconcile the two, the fact that the Church is pro-life and your pro-choice. She gave some answer, and I asked her again 'if you believe what the Church teaches, then how can you be pro-choice'.

She was stumped. I think she left it at; I dunno, I'll have to get back to you.

I think what I learned from that is that asking people questions is better than just saying 'you're about to commit a mortal sin'. Maybe for example you could have said 'how do you reconcile the fact that the Church is against abortion, you say you're for the Church, but you vote against it?' And ask it in an honest manner. Because you are curious, at least I am - I want to see what sort of mental gymnastics are possible to reconcile those view points.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1695776' date='Nov 6 2008, 10:48 AM']I think what I learned from that is that asking people questions is better than just saying 'you're about to commit a mortal sin'. Maybe for example you could have said 'how do you reconcile the fact that the Church is against abortion, you say you're for the Church, but you vote against it?' And ask it in an honest manner. Because you are curious, at least I am - I want to see what sort of mental gymnastics are possible to reconcile those view points.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
amen

[Dave]

Well that's great if it's a person who's at least open to thinking about it. But if said person has made up their mind that they're right and no one will convince them otherwise (as was my experience with these folks), then you have to get a little tough. Remember that Jesus called the Pharisees "hypocrites," "brood of vipers," etc.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1695611' date='Nov 6 2008, 09:52 AM']Apparently there is no such thing as an orthodox believer or a conservative thinker who is good with words.

Not that I claim to be, but I at least would like to try.[/quote]

Well there is a particular grace that some people have to tell someone something they are not going to like, but do it in a way that the person is not offended at all but even listens to them.

St. Catherine of Siena had this grace.

Mother Teresa had this grace.

Pope John Paul II had this grace.

They all had to say hard things, but they did it in a way that was charitable and eloquent. Not all of us have this, but somtimes we still have to say what we have to say.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Dave' post='1695852' date='Nov 6 2008, 03:23 PM']Well that's great if it's a person who's at least open to thinking about it. But if said person has made up their mind that they're right and no one will convince them otherwise (as was my experience with these folks), then you have to get a little tough. Remember that Jesus called the Pharisees "hypocrites," "brood of vipers," etc.[/quote]

Well, when you send one of these friends of yours a blunt message that voting for Obama is mortal sin and they need to reconsider, what kind of response are you expecting? Of course they aren't gonna be friends with you any more and they still voted for Obama. Lot of good that did, eh?

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1696064' date='Nov 6 2008, 06:43 PM']Well there is a particular grace that some people have to tell someone something they are not going to like, but do it in a way that the person is not offended at all but even listens to them.

St. Catherine of Siena had this grace.

Mother Teresa had this grace.

Pope John Paul II had this grace.

They all had to say hard things, but they did it in a way that was charitable and eloquent. Not all of us have this, but somtimes we still have to say what we have to say.[/quote]

Indeed, but we needn't hold up saints as examples, plus I'm not sure that what I'm talking about is a "grace" in the sense you're talking about. Showing respect, listening, and simply treating people like people is how all human beings should interact with one another. We aren't on personal crusades to ram the Truth down as many throats as possible. We don't see any of the effective missionaries in Church history preaching that Gospel in that fashion. Not that they weren't stern when necessary, but stern words are usually reserved for those who are in a position to handle them and take the warning seriously, like the Saducees and Pharisees, because they were well educated in the Jewish Scriptures and faith and fully convinced for their righteousness. Most Catholics (and people in general) aren't in that position.

Plus, too often we hold up Jesus' examples of calling the Pharisees a "brood of vipers" and wreaking havoc through the Temple marketplace to justify similar behavior on our part, but the problem is we are acting out of pride than out of a sincere and humble desire to serve the Church and call brothers and sisters to repentance. We love the glory of being right more often than the sacrifice of laying down our will before God's in prayer.

Just something to think about. If anything, my faults are in the opposite direction of being too soft when I need to stand up for my beliefs or call someone out.