Dave Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) One of my Facebook friends, a fellow Catholic, had made it clear on her page that she intends to vote for Obama. This is a practicing Catholic girl who works with LifeTeen at her parish. So I sent her a message. I said, "One cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate such as Obama without objectively committing a mortal sin. I urge you to reconsider." That's all I said -- nothing more, nothing less. She responded by removing me from her friend list and sent me a message entitled "let me alone." This girl said it wasn't my place to tell her how to vote. Then she had the gall to say, "Mortal sin? So is masturbation." She concluded by threatening to contact Facebook if it continued. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men: Some people can't handle the truth! Edited November 4, 2008 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 That's scary. Actually. That kind of response. I find it creepier when people take it so personally. I think most Catholics are not aware of the Biblical admonition to [b]"not put your trust in princes (in the children of men), in whom there is no salvation".[/b] Voting is not the 8th sacrament. Maybe you don't want to push the issue since she's threatened to report you to Facebook, but you could refer her to Psalm 146. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well I did send one message in reply. I started off by telling her that if she didn't want me "telling [her] how to vote," then she shouldn't have advertised who she supported. I then explained briefly that what I was doing was more than just telling her who to vote for; that it was FRATERNAL CORRECTION, and that I was just repeating what the Church said and that she should look up what various bishops have said about it. Then I told her she was being very judgmental for accusing me of masturbation/mortal sin when she has no idea what sins I've been guilty of (adding, however, that I knew it was a mortal sin and that was why I tried to avoid it plus all other mortal sins by the grace of God, but that if I fall, there's confession). I then asked her what type of example her actions set for her LifeTeen charges, and I concluded by telling her that if her conscience were at peace, then she wouldn't have any reason to get so angry (that's what a bishop recently said regarding those who get mad about being told not to vote for Obama -- can't remember exactly who, though; gotta look it up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarus Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='Dave' post='1692815' date='Nov 4 2008, 12:38 AM']One of my Facebook friends, a fellow Catholic, had made it clear on her page that she intends to vote for Obama. This is a practicing Catholic girl who works with LifeTeen at her parish. So I sent her a message. I said, "One cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate such as Obama without objectively committing a mortal sin. I urge you to reconsider." That's all I said -- nothing more, nothing less. She responded by removing me from her friend list and sent me a message entitled "let me alone." This girl said it wasn't my place to tell her how to vote. Then she had the gall to say, "Mortal sin? So is masturbation." She concluded by threatening to contact Facebook if it continued. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men: Some people can't handle the truth![/quote] Actually it's not objectively a mortal sin to vote for a pro-choice candidate. The USCCB's "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship" is a great resource that gives guidance to voters. It's actually a thoughtful, nuanced approach to encourage all of us who will be voting to actually be thoughtful in our approach. With regard to pro-choice candidates, the letter basically says that a faithfu Catholic can vote for a pro-choice candidate if they are not doing so in order to advance pro-choce positions. Also, there must be no other viable pro-life option available. Although they don't explicitly use the word, the bishops appear to be laying out a proportionality test in such cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='Dave' post='1692823' date='Nov 4 2008, 02:04 AM']if her conscience were at peace, then she wouldn't have any reason to get so angry (that's what a bishop recently said regarding those who get mad about being told not to vote for Obama -- can't remember exactly who, though; gotta look it up).[/quote] That pretty much says it all. It is unfortunate that she cut you off and won't really discuss the matter. Maybe she will change her mind at the voting booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 I doubt it. I just got another message that didn't respond to any of the points I made. She said, "Leave me alone. I have deleted you. Cease and desist. I never knew you [in college -- which is a lie]. You're out of line." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='Barbarus' post='1692824' date='Nov 4 2008, 02:11 AM']Actually it's not objectively a mortal sin to vote for a pro-choice candidate. The USCCB's "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship" is a great resource that gives guidance to voters. It's actually a thoughtful, nuanced approach to encourage all of us who will be voting to actually be thoughtful in our approach. With regard to pro-choice candidates, the letter basically says that a faithfu Catholic can vote for a pro-choice candidate if they are not doing so in order to advance pro-choce positions. Also, there must be no other viable pro-life option available. Although they don't explicitly use the word, the bishops appear to be laying out a proportionality test in such cases.[/quote] First of all, that pamphlet from the USCCB that you cite actually came from a committee within the USCCB, which doesn't really have any true teaching authority. Second, there's definitely another viable pro-life option available -- McCain! Don't get me wrong; he's not perfect in that, among other things, he promotes embryonic stem cell research. But he's not going to undo the past several years' worth of pro-life progress like Obama intends to do! The bottom line? There's NO proportionate reason to vote for Obama. Anyone who claims there is is seriously deluded. Thus, you are wrong -- without proportional reasons, it is indeed an objectively mortal sin to vote for Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarus Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='Dave' post='1692827' date='Nov 4 2008, 01:20 AM']First of all, that pamphlet from the USCCB that you cite actually came from a committee within the USCCB, which doesn't really have any true teaching authority. Second, there's definitely another viable pro-life option available -- McCain! Don't get me wrong; he's not perfect in that, among other things, he promotes embryonic stem cell research. But he's not going to undo the past several years' worth of pro-life progress like Obama intends to do! The bottom line? There's NO proportionate reason to vote for Obama. Anyone who claims there is is seriously deluded. Thus, you are wrong -- without proportional reasons, it is indeed an objectively mortal sin to vote for Obama.[/quote] You forgot to add "in my opinion" to the end of your statement. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to be voting for McCain in 45 minutes myself. And I am personally of the opinion that there is not proportionate reason to vote for Obama. However, I don't elevate my opinion to the status of righteousness, and I believe it is possible for a faithful Catholic to look at the entirety of the situation and come to a different conclusion. Besides, in your opening post you said it was objectively sinful for someone to vote for a pro-choice candidate, and that's how I responded -- that it is not objectively sinful to vote for a pro-choice candidate. There are circumstances under which one could be morally right in such a vote. It is possible, in my opinion, for one to come to such a conclusion in the current election. I also wasn't aware that there were "objective mortal sins." I was under the impression that for a sin to be mortal it had to be grave matter, committed with full knowledge, and deliberate consent. I've seen debates on here at several points about whether certain activities are or are not mortally sinful, and it always comes down to these three criteria. I'm reasonably certain that still applies here, so therefore you can't say that voting for Obama is objectively mortally sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Regardless of whatever "reasons" you have to be concerned, it's not your place to tell someone how they should be voting. That's why she got mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1692902' date='Nov 4 2008, 07:09 AM']Regardless of whatever "reasons" you have to be concerned, it's not your place to tell someone how they should be voting. That's why she got mad.[/quote] If someone brings up how they're voting, criticism of their choice is fair game. If they don't want people commenting on their vote, they need to keep it private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1692902' date='Nov 4 2008, 11:09 PM']Regardless of whatever "reasons" you have to be concerned, it's not your place to tell someone how they should be voting. That's why she got mad.[/quote] Some people never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1692905' date='Nov 4 2008, 08:23 AM']If someone brings up how they're voting, criticism of their choice is fair game. If they don't want people commenting on their vote, they need to keep it private.[/quote] I agree. But there is a certain level of "if you vote for Obama, you'll rot in hell" that Catholic's tend to give off when discussing politics. No offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) [quote]Well I did send one message in reply. I started off by telling her that if she didn't want me "telling [her] how to vote," then she shouldn't have advertised who she supported.[/quote] I can't tell you how many times on Facebook I have commented peoples' political statuses - and, of course, since I say what they don't want to hear, they get insulted, because naturally I have no place remarking on their public status. (Keeping in mind I did not bring religion into it.) I agree - if you don't want the attention, don't advertise it. Edited November 4, 2008 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 99%of my friends facebook status' is "McCain Palin 2008 Get out the Vote!" lol... I guess thats what happens when you go to Franciscan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 [quote name='Slappo' post='1692945' date='Nov 4 2008, 11:20 AM']99%of my friends facebook status' is "McCain Palin 2008 Get out the Vote!" lol... I guess thats what happens when you go to Franciscan.[/quote] Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now