The Rapture

[CatholicAndFanatical]

I have been in many discussions over this topic as well in the recent year or so.

It's good we can all talk about St. Aquinas and many writings, but how about talking about Rapture for a few?

What about Scripture references to one being caught up while the other remain?

Take for example 1 Thess:
1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Thess 4:16 [b]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first[/b]:
1 Thess 4:17 [b]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air[/b]: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

In this passage it seems that we are to be caught up before something else takes place
1 Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us [b]from the wrath to come.[/b]

Luke also suggests that we are to be caught up and kept from the coming Tribulations:
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to [b]escape all these things that shall come to pass[/b], and to stand before the Son of man.


Dont get me wrong, I question rapture and if it exists. But as I type this I am reading Revelation, Thess and Corinthians and there seems to be events that take place [b]after[/b] we are taken up. From what I have read so far after we are taken up, all Hell breaks loose here on earth and the people that remain are forced to bear the mark of the beast, if they do not then they will be unable to buy or sell anything. I beleive some mention of dying because due to refusing the mark as well. Those that refuse the mark of the beast will be in Heaven.


Can someone read these Scriptures and see anything different than what it actually says?



[b]EDIT: Ok, something came to mind after I read what I typed - 1 Thess 1:10 could refer to us being saved from the wrath to come, BECAUSE - those that were saved by Christ' Death (by Baptism and Confirmation) bear the SEAL of CHRIST..Therefore, according to revelations those that bear the Seal of Christ shall not take part in this Wrath.

So I am changing my stance on that piece of Scripture, I beleive the Scripture could be said like this:

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us ([b]US[/b] being those that have been baptised) [b]from the wrath to come(by marking us with Christs' Seal - given to us by baptism).[/b]

Edited November 26, 2008 by CatholicAndFanatical

[CSLF]

{4:15} For we say this to you, in the Word of the Lord: that we who are alive, who remain until the return of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

My reading: St. Paul was reassuring the Christian community that they would not have to endure the same wait that those who were already dead had had to. Essentially (I think) that he's saying that they won't have to wait for a second resurrection so that they could be resurrected from the dead. And because the people who are dead are already dead, they go first. Just because the Resurrection just occurred doesn't mean that the people who were alive afterward get priority.

{4:16} For the Lord himself, with a command and with the voice of an Archangel and with a trumpet of God, shall descend from heaven. And the dead, who are in Christ, shall rise up first.

My reading: When you die you will be welcomed in the same way that those who were dead when the Resurrection occurred were. Also, those who accepted Christ into their lives will be accepted by Him.

{4:17} Next, we who are alive, who are remaining, shall be taken up quickly together with them into the clouds to meet Christ in the air. And in this way, we shall be with the Lord always.

My reading: The people reading the letter, who weren't dead at the time of the Resurrection, will still get the same benefits, they just have to wait to die to go to heaven.


It is clear, Sacred Scripture is asserting a future event.

It's referring to the future, but it was written in about 60 AD. I think it was referring to future of the Thessalonians.

The question is in what context does this event occur, and what is meant by "shall be taken up quickly together with them into the clouds to meet Christ in the air" ???

I've already given my opinion about the context, but I have to ask, do you have the Greek for these verses? Considering this is a doubly translated verse (Greek->Latin->English) I feel unsure as to whether the best choices were made in word choice. Especially clouds and air. There are so many possible meanings. I just went to a thesaurus website and searched sky (I thought that would be closer to what I think the intended meaning of air was). Here are the results: azure, celestial sphere, empyrean, firmament, heavens, lid, the blue, upper atmosphere, vault, vault of heaven, welkin, wild blue yonder.
If the translator uses the wrong synonym for three words just imagine how distorted meaning becomes.