Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The Second Council of Constantinople condemned Chiliasm as a heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698016' date='Nov 8 2008, 09:33 PM']The Second Council of Constantinople condemned Chiliasm as a heresy.[/quote] define Chiliasm and show me where it was condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) [quote name='kafka' post='1698035' date='Nov 8 2008, 08:06 PM']define Chiliasm and show me where it was condemned.[/quote] Chiliasm is the heretical idea that Christ will reign for 1,000 years on earth. As the Council of Constantinople I teaches: ". . . of His kingdom there will be no end." Edited November 9, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roesib Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I know of a very orthodox Catholic apparition in Flushing, New York where the Blessed Virgin said the Rapture is true. For more info go to www.smwa.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 [quote name='roesib' post='1698071' date='Nov 8 2008, 09:19 PM']I know of a very orthodox Catholic apparition in Flushing, New York where the Blessed Virgin said the Rapture is true. For more info go to www.smwa.org[/quote] No one is required to believe in a private revelation; and in fact, private revelations can add nothing substantive to the content of the deposit of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698043' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:32 PM']Chiliasm is the heretical idea that Christ will reign for 1,000 years on earth. As the Council of Constantinople I teaches: ". . . of His kingdom there will be no end."[/quote] That is a simplistic definition. We've been developing ideas far beyond that based on Sacred Scripture and writings of the early Church Fathers who taught an idea of the Millenium. some of the early Church Fathers speculated about the Millenium such as Saints Justin, Irenaeus, Sappias, Tertullian, Barnabas. Even Augustine believed in a literal Millenium at first, but later he changed his mind (which I disagree with). The Second Council of Constantinople never condemned Chiliasm. They did condemn as heretical the teachings of Appolinarius who had heretical ideas such as Christ was not the Son of God therefore when He Returns, He can at best only be an earthly king and his supposed reign during the Millenium would be one of sensual pleasures. The reason the Council added "of His kingdom there will be no end." is at that time some heretics (falsely borrowing from the early Church Fathers) mixed in their writings some weird ideas about a secular kingdom on earth where Christ would visibly reign, with gross sensual pleasures etc, and they did not want the Faithful to continue reading their works. Therefore, the development of the Millenium which began with the early pre-Nicean Fathers came to a sort of standstill. If you've noticed, in my posts, I've proposed nothing of the heretical sort. To what exactly the Millenium might be is an open question of speculative theology. The kingdom of God has no end whether it be on Earth via the Church or in Heaven. Yet Time on the first Earth will eventually end. And the different Time periods (or phases) of the Church on first Earth will come to an end with the Creation of the New Earth. Edited November 9, 2008 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The rapture and millennial reign idea has been declared dangerous to teach and heretical in nature. That is why I reject the concept entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698106' date='Nov 8 2008, 11:55 PM']The rapture and millennial reign idea has been declared dangerous to teach and heretical in nature. That is why I reject the concept entirely.[/quote] That is your choice, and I respect it. I agree the Protestant and early heretical ideas are erroneous and could potentially be dangerous for one immature in Faith. So for me it is an incentive to develop correct Catholic ideas instead of avoiding the subject altogether. These are based in Sacred Scripture and the writings of the early Church Fathers so there has to be some correct interpretations/conclusions. Edited November 9, 2008 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 [quote name='kafka' post='1698107' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:01 PM']That is your choice, and I respect it. I agree the Protestant and early heretical ideas are erroneous, so for me it is an incentive to develop correct Catholic ideas instead of avoiding the subject altogether. These are based in Sacred Scripture and the writings of the early Church Fathers so there has to be some correct interpretations/conclusions.[/quote] I will stick with the teaching of the Magisterium of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698108' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:02 AM']I will stick with the teaching of the Magisterium of the Church.[/quote] With due respect the Magisterium has taught very little on these subjects, and speculative theology is an important part of the life of the Church, so I'll continue with the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I have read through your posts on this thread, and I admit that while I was a Protestant heretic I would have agreed with most of your comments, but I gave all of that non-sense up when I converted to Catholicism twenty-one years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698113' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:09 AM']I have read through your posts on this thread, and I admit that while I was a Protestant heretic I would have agreed with most of your comments, but I gave all of that non-sense up when I converted to Catholicism twenty-one years ago.[/quote] well thank you for complimenting my work as non-sense. Saint Iranaeus is next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 [quote name='roesib' date='Nov 9 2008, 12:19 AM' post='1698071'] I know of a very orthodox Catholic apparition in Flushing, New York where the Blessed Virgin said the Rapture is true. [color="#FF0000"]edit - cmom. This apparition has not been accepted by the Catholic Church, and is considered false in nature, so I am removing the link.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abercius24 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1698043' date='Nov 8 2008, 10:32 PM']Chiliasm is the heretical idea that Christ will reign for 1,000 years on earth. As the Council of Constantinople I teaches: ". . . of His kingdom there will be no end."[/quote] Hey Apotheoun! You have any Eastern Fathers on this topic you can quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 [quote name='kafka' post='1698112' date='Nov 9 2008, 01:06 AM']With due respect the Magisterium has taught very little on these subjects, and speculative theology is an important part of the life of the Church, so I'll continue with the discussion.[/quote] i love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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