1,350 Christian Families Fled Mosul, Iraq In The Past Week

[BG45]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1679585' date='Oct 17 2008, 12:44 AM']As having much experience with white supremacist groups, you have to understand that they believe that their race is their religion. Going against your race makes you a heretic.[/quote]

iawtc since you know what you're talking about to the extreme. Also from personal experience, the folks down at the late William Pierce's compound do not take kindly to being sympathetic to non-whites...

[Fidei Defensor]

I'm going to retire for the night, but I look forward to continuing this discussion tomorrow.

Good night.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679576' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:35 PM']And the other groups we listed commit acts of violence, and claim it's in the name of their religion. The only difference is, because they're not Muslims, you choose to ignore that.[/quote]

This is not true. I looked at the websites provided and no where did I see a connection between, for example, the violence and the religion. McVey did what he did because he was acting out against the federal government (he was a Gulf War Veteran). Yes, he identified himself with Christianity, but that was not why he did what he did.

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679580' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:39 PM']Her "rank and power" remark just adds more to my point that she's claiming all Muslims are united in everything the do to us "infidels."[/quote]

That is not what I am suggesting at all. Within every organization there are disagreements. I was suggesting that while there are other issues at play amongst Muslim radicals (different sects fighting with each other), the main reason why they commit acts of violence is in the name of their religion.

Why do you say I'm claming "all Muslims"? I've been using "Muslim radicals" (and variations of this title) in all of my posts.

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1679583' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:41 PM']The only difference between that and what I'm saying is that it's more rational to believe that yes, these groups do share a common religion, but they are truly following what real Islam is, but rather, their skewed version which somehow rationalizes violence. It's no different than these other groups saying that it's God's will for them to kill others. Obviously, according to the Bible, it's not His will. The same is true with these radical Muslims. They are improperly justifying their actions with the Koran. The fact that there are more Muslim radicals than other radicals has no bearing on the religion itself, rather, it shows a disturbing trend of violence from that part of the world.[/quote]

Good points.

I have to disagree though, about "the fact that there are more Muslim radicals than other radicals has no bearing on the religion itself" because:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_K8KjVxkaY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_K8KjVxkaY[/url]

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679598' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:02 PM']This is not true. I looked at the websites provided and no where did I see a connection between, for example, the violence and the religion. McVey did what he did because he was acting out against the federal government (he was a Gulf War Veteran). Yes, he identified himself with Christianity, but that was not why he did what he did.[/quote]

So you're saying the IRA, KKK, and every other group listed have nothing to do with religion?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679601' date='Oct 17 2008, 12:10 AM']So you're saying the IRA, KKK, and every other group listed have nothing to do with religion?[/quote]

Nope. I'm saying for those groups it's not all about religion the way it is with radical Muslims.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='BG45' post='1679593' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:51 PM']iawtc since you know what you're talking about to the extreme. Also from personal experience, the folks down at the late William Pierce's compound do not take kindly to being sympathetic to non-whites...[/quote]

Yeah, they took exception to me being a Catholic, testifying for the "Jewish controlled government," and generally for aligning myself with the mud people. I was told when the cleansing came that I would be one of the first to go as a traitor to my race, and then the rest of the whores of babylon would be next. Meh, they took their best shot, and I'm still here.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679603' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:14 PM']Nope. I'm saying for those groups it's not all about religion the way it is with radical Muslims.[/quote]

Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to regain territory that the Palestinians once controlled?

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679603' date='Oct 17 2008, 12:14 AM']Nope. I'm saying for those groups [b]it's not all about religion the way it is with radical Muslims[/b].[/quote]


That's an interesting theory, however it simply does not corelate with fact. I can point you to numerous scientific studies of this issue if you wish.

[Hassan]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679605' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:21 PM']Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to regain territory that the Palestinians once controlled?[/quote]


Or Hezbollah who formed to "liberate" South Lebenon, or the various insurgent groups in Chechnya, Al-Sadr's poer play in Iraq is totally a wholly religious phenomenon, just like those insurgency groups in Uzbekistan who constantly bother that poor Islom Karimov fellow.

It's very strange that all these terrorist groups primairly motivated by religious imperatives just happen to pop up in these "trouble spots" isin't it.

It's almost like Muslim terrorism, like Christian terrorism, is a complex phenomenon which must be carefull investigated in all it's various mannifestations in the numerous different political and cultural contexts in which is occurs.

[BG45]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1679604' date='Oct 17 2008, 01:19 AM']Yeah, they took exception to me being a Catholic, testifying for the "Jewish controlled government," and generally for aligning myself with the mud people. I was told when the cleansing came that I would be one of the first to go as a traitor to my race, and then the rest of the whores of babylon would be next. Meh, they took their best shot, and I'm still here.[/quote]

...lovely. But yep sounds like the rhetoric one would hear down in the southern half of my own state from certain individuals. Or for that matter a bit north of me; a friend nearly escaped a beating for not agreeing with Hitler.

Importantly though, you are still here, and can continue to speak out against them.

[Madame Vengier]

Once again, WHICH terrorist groups--be they religiously affiliated or purely secular--are currently committing acts of violence and/or oppression and denying people basic human rights (think equality for women, rights of young children, things like that) on every single continent on the globe?

Remember, the criteria:

[list]
[*]A group either religious or secular
[*]Currently active and operating
[*]Committing violent or oppressive acts
[*]Denial of basic human rights (women, children, etc)
[*]Active on every continent on the globe
[/list]

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1679722' date='Oct 17 2008, 05:56 AM']Once again, WHICH terrorist groups--be they religiously affiliated or purely secular--are currently committing acts of violence and/or oppression and denying people basic human rights (think equality for women, rights of young children, things like that) on every single continent on the globe?

Remember, the criteria:

[list]
[*]A group either religious or secular
[*]Currently active and operating
[*]Committing violent or oppressive acts
[*]Denial of basic human rights (women, children, etc)
[*]Active on every continent on the globe
[/list][/quote]

Name one group of your hated Muslims that fits your precious criteria (which you constantly change, once anyone names large numbers of terrorist groups).

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679835' date='Oct 17 2008, 01:23 PM']Name one group of your hated Muslims that fits your precious criteria (which you constantly change, once anyone names large numbers of terrorist groups).[/quote]

She listed the criteria way better than I did, lol.

And she doesn't hate Muslims. Don't you read?

In the prayer thread:

[quote]I have defended the rights of Muslims to practice their faith. I have posted against the refusal of some people to allow Muslim women to wear the veil in certain places. I sided with the Muslims regarding having a special day off for their high holy days--my issue was with the company in question DROPPING a federal American holiday in favor of a Muslim holy day. I suggested all staff should be given a personal day which they are free to use as they wish. I have sided with Muslims having places to pray in places like universities--my issue has only been with their demands to have something that is special and unique above other people of other faiths. And having a prayer room dedicated to Muslims in a public mall is atrocious--at the mall's expense, I might add. I would feel the same if Catholics made such a preposterous demand. My issues have never been with Muslims being treated with equality alongside other citizens. My issue is with their blantant efforts to Islamacize every where they go, from building minarets with loudspeakers to prayer rooms in shopping malls to setting embassies on fire over a cartoon of Mohammed.

The mere fact of criticizing a culture or a religion does not amount to bigotry and the suggestion of such is utter slander. There is nothing in human experience that is above scrutiny. Even the Catholic Church is scrutinized. Even God himself is scrutinized. Why shouldn't Islam and the behavior of Muslims be scrutinized as well? They are not above anyone, no matter what the Koran teaches them.[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679858' date='Oct 17 2008, 02:09 PM']She listed the criteria way better than I did, lol.

And she doesn't hate Muslims. Don't you read?

In the prayer thread:[/quote]


Sure, and my father just says the 'n' word every now and then, but he has black friends (true).

Look. I believe Madam V when she says she does not hate Muslims, perhapse she even knows Muslims who she doesn't believe are involved in jihad.

However she has made disgustingly bigoted comments about Muslims, she preaches paranoia and anti-muslim bigotry.

That is NOT an insult, it is absolutly true and there are plenty of posts by her to prove it.

An Arab friend of mine mentioned the same things with anti-semitism in the Arab/Muslim community community. My Great Aunt was the same way about Roman Catholics

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1679987' date='Oct 17 2008, 04:40 PM']Look. I believe Madam V when she says she does not hate Muslims, perhapse she even knows Muslims who she doesn't believe are involved in jihad.

However she has made disgustingly bigoted comments about Muslims, she preaches paranoia and anti-muslim bigotry.

That is NOT an insult, it is absolutly true and there are plenty of posts by her to prove it.[/quote]
She and I have had many discussions/disagreements on how she presents her arguments, but as to the content, she either has links to back up her opinions, or is simply posting other people's information/opinions for our educational edification. All or nothing language, from either side, does not fulfill the goal of a good debate, which is to change people's minds to your viewpoint. Saying that her comments are "disgustingly bigoted" certainly doesn't make me want to listen to your arguments after that point anymore than some of her comments make me want to review some of her well researched links.

A wise man once said, "Only the Sith speak in absolutes."