1,350 Christian Families Fled Mosul, Iraq In The Past Week

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679559' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:19 PM']Thank you for the information.

However, again, I am looking for radical religious groups that focus only on their religion as the reason as to why they are being violent. The KKK heavily relies on their racism, for example - not just their skewed version of Christianity. The same applies for Aryan Nation. I see the same trend with Christian Identity - racism. (I am looking at the sites as I type this.) The only two that fit the criteria so far are Army of God (USA) and Lambs of Christ (and yet they profess to be nonviolent, it says - the group as a whole, they don't speak for those individual members who are violent).

Edit:

And those groups are not as massive as, say, the hierarchy within Muslim terrorism.[/quote]
I think, though, you need to apply the same standard to Muslim terrorists then. There are many many groups of radicals, not just one giant group called "Terrorists," and not all of the groups are solely for religious reasons.

Edited October 17, 2008 by fidei defensor

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679563' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:23 PM']After a quick look - those involve government, not religion.[/quote]

Jewish Underground
Israeli Settlers
Phalangists
The Ku Klux Klan (GIANT CROSS ON FIRE?)

[Hassan]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1679564' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:25 PM']I think, though, you need to apply the same standard to Muslim terrorists then. There are many many groups of radicals, not just one giant group called "Terrorists," and not all of the groups are solely for religious reasons.[/quote]


carefull now, that's a dangerous step towards scientific analysis of social phenomenon

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1679564' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:25 PM']I think, though, you need to apply the same standard to Muslim terrorists then. There are many many groups of radicals, not just one giant group called "Terrorists," and not all of the groups are solely for religious reasons.[/quote]

Wait...that's the thing. Muslims are wholly united.

[Hassan]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679568' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:27 PM']Wait...that's the thing. Muslims are wholly united.[/quote]


Exactly.

Everyone also knows that while Christian and Jewish terrorist organizations are the products of a complex assortment of variables those mindless muhammadeans just act via religious imperatives.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1679564' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:25 PM']I think, though, you need to apply the same standard to Muslim terrorists then. There are many many groups of radicals, not just one giant group called "Terrorists," and not all of the groups are solely for religious reasons.[/quote]

I will concede that Muslim terrorists groups (that is, there is no one united terrorist group "in the name of Allah" but multiple) fight each other, due to rank and power, that sort of thing. But the main factor is in the name of their religion.


[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679568' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:27 PM']Wait...that's the thing. Muslims are wholly united.[/quote]

Fidei and I are actually having a nice discussion. This comment isn't necessary.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679572' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:32 PM']Fidei and I are actually having a nice discussion. This comment isn't necessary.[/quote]

It was prudent to the conversation at hand. If you don't like what I have to say, don't comment. (Or, take a page from MV, and just put me on ignore.)

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679572' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:32 PM']I will concede that Muslim terrorists groups (that is, there is no one united terrorist group "in the name of Allah" but multiple) fight each other, due to rank and power, that sort of thing. But the main factor is in the name of their religion.[/quote]

No, no that's just not true.

The primary motivation and origins of Hammas and Al-Quaida are quite different




[quote]Fidei and I are actually having a nice discussion. This comment isn't necessary.[/quote]

It was a verygood point

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679572' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:32 PM']I will concede that Muslim terrorists groups (that is, there is no one united terrorist group "in the name of Allah" but multiple) fight each other, due to rank and power, that sort of thing. But the main factor is in the name of their religion.[/quote]

And the other groups we listed commit acts of violence, and claim it's in the name of their religion. The only difference is, because they're not Muslims, you choose to ignore that.

[Hassan]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679576' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:35 PM']And the other groups we listed commit acts of violence, and claim it's in the name of their religion. The only difference is, because they're not Muslims, you choose to ignore that.[/quote]


Additionally to claim that the groups only fight each other over "rank and power" is just asinine. The Taliban slaughtered Shia' in Afghanistan. How about Hamma and the PLO?

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1679578' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:37 PM']Additionally to claim that the groups only fight each other over "rank and power" is just asinine. The Taliban slaughtered Shia' in Afghanistan. How about Hamma and the PLO?[/quote]

Her "rank and power" remark just adds more to my point that she's claiming all Muslims are united in everything the do to us "infidels."

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679572' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:32 PM']I will concede that Muslim terrorists groups (that is, there is no one united terrorist group "in the name of Allah" but multiple) fight each other, due to rank and power, that sort of thing. But the main factor is in the name of their religion.[/quote]
The only difference between that and what I'm saying is that it's more rational to believe that yes, these groups do share a common religion, but they are truly following what real Islam is, but rather, their skewed version which somehow rationalizes violence. It's no different than these other groups saying that it's God's will for them to kill others. Obviously, according to the Bible, it's not His will. The same is true with these radical Muslims. They are improperly justifying their actions with the Koran. The fact that there are more Muslim radicals than other radicals has no bearing on the religion itself, rather, it shows a disturbing trend of violence from that part of the world.

[Hassan]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1679580' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:39 PM']Her "rank and power" remark just adds more to my point that she's claiming all Muslims are united in everything the do to us "infidels."[/quote]

I actually missed that and only picked up on the factual error but now that I look at it your absolutly right

[CatherineM]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679557' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:12 PM']Good point. However, did Timothy McVey bomb the building because of his professed religious beliefs, or was there a different reason? Also, this is the example of one individual independently committing a horrible act - he wasn't part of, for example, a terrorist cell.

I'm talking about a group of religious radicals who act out violently against other groups in the name of their religion.[/quote]

As having much experience with white supremacist groups, you have to understand that they believe that their race is their religion. Going against your race makes you a heretic.

[Hassan]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1679583' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:41 PM']The only difference between that and what I'm saying is that it's more rational to believe that yes, these groups do share a common religion, but they are truly following what real Islam is, but rather, their skewed version which somehow rationalizes violence. It's no different than these other groups saying that it's God's will for them to kill others. Obviously, according to the Bible, it's not His will. The same is true with these radical Muslims. They are improperly justifying their actions with the Koran. The fact that there are more Muslim radicals than other radicals has no bearing on the religion itself, rather, it shows a disturbing trend of violence from that part of the world.[/quote]


they can have some support. Sayyid Qutb was a great scholar who was the godfather of many Islamic radical groups.

However even here groups do not agree. Hezbollah's leader condemned Bin Laden for 9/11, so how does he then justify attacking Israeli civilians? Because Israeli's all serve in the army at some point in time.