What Does The Word "pagan" In Greek Mean?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 13 2004, 05:20 AM'] I'm not, nor have I stated as of yet, that we should not have rituals...but these "rituals" should not be something that is not found in the Bible...as I will continue to state... to take one that I see all the Catholics I know do..."crossing" themselves when they pass by a catholic church...first of all, thats NOWHERE in the Bible, second, the "CHURCH?" is JUST A BUILDING... church is not WHERE you meet...you could have church in your house...as MOST people did in the EARLY church and thruout the NT...and God would STILL be there. God is EVERYWHERE His believers are. [/quote]
lumberjack,

Who says that all rituals have to be in the Bible? I think this is a rule you have just made up, I've never read that in the Bible or anywhere else.
Also scope out verses such as 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 2:15; 2 Thess 3:6; Jn 21:25; 2 Tim 2:2. These talk about the fact that Christianity was passed on with Tradition, from the Apostles to the early Church. This preceded the NT Scriptures themselves. Also the ancient christians bear witness to the fact of Apostolic Tradition. And also the Bible was never meant to be a blue-print for the Church, especially since the Church preceded the NT and decided the canon. So anyway I don't know what basis you have to assert that something like the sign of the cross shouldn't be done because it's not in the Bible. It's not a doctrinal thing at all, it's just a custom that developed.
Here is a link to a page with some ancient christian quotes which bear withness to Apostolic Tradition (please note I'm not trying to suggest that the sign of the cross is an Apostolic Tradition, its a custom that came into being later): [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp[/url]

If you want to know about the history and meaning of the sign of the cross I would look in the Catholic encyclopedia at www.newadvent.org

Also we do not make the sign of the Cross when we pass a Catholic church because of the building, but because of the Eucharist. It is a sign of reverence and a blessing of oneself made because Jesus Christ is present inside the Church. I would do this while passing an ordinary house if the house had a tabernacle inside.

[quote]and Paul never says Eucharist...ever.[/quote]
If that were true it wouldn't matter because there are different names for the Eucharist that weren't always used. For example, the Blessed Sacrament, Holy Communion, etc.. The Greek word from which we get the word Eucharist is "eucharistia", which means thanksgiving. This word appears in the N.T. many times including in the letters of St. Paul (2 Cor 9:11; 2 Cor 9:12; Phil 4:6; Col 2:7; Col 4:2; 1 Tim 4:3, etc..) . The LXX OT uses this word to translate the Hebrew word "todah", which also means thanksgiving. There are many reasons why this word is used to describe the Eucharist. One obvious thing would be that when Jesus instituted the Eucharist He "gave thanks", so it's kind of a thank offering. But also the Hebrew equivalent, todah, has significance considering there was a kind of sacrifice in Israel called a todah sacrifice which is a type or foreshadowing of the Eucharist. The passover is a kind of corporate todah sacrifice.

And when I said Paul talks about ritual of the Eucharist I was talking about verses such as 1 Cor 11:23-26 where Paul says "For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you [the ritual of the breaking of the bread, a.k.a. Eucharist], that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took break, and when he had given thanks [eucharistesas], he broke it, and said, 'This is my body which for for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me'... etc.."

[quote]and let the JEWS be as ritualistic as they want...if they CHOOSE not to realize that Christ is the Messiah, that is THEIR CHOICE...and last time I checked, I have YET to see a Jewis HIGH PRIEST make the atonement offering to the Lord...its not like something like THAT can go unnoticed. As for the Feast of the Lamb spoken of in Revelation, isn't that just figurative/metaphorical? or do you actually believe some of it to be literal?[/quote]
First off, the point about the Jews being a ritualistic people had more to do with the fact of the Jews in Christ's time then today. I don't think you appreciate how ritualistic the life of the Jews back then was. As far as the book of Revelation, I'm not going to respond to your question about figurative/metaphorical because it's irrelevant. The point was heaven is depicted in the ritualistic way which goes against the idea that Christ abolished rituals or that ritualism is because of sin (which is what you were saying).


[quote]as for fulfilling the old rituals...we don't do that...Christ did it and does it for us whenever we sin...and as for the Sacraments? thats another topic....[/quote]
I'm glad we agree at least that Christ is the one who fulfilled the Old Covenant stuff. Christ fulfilled many of these things precisely by instituting His Sacraments. We do not believe that men made them up but that Christ instituted them. For example no man made up the fact that Christ comes to us in the Eucharist, this was Christ's idea and it's His power that does it. But you're right, the Sacraments would be for another thread.

Peace brother.