What Does The Word "pagan" In Greek Mean?

[Paladin D]

I've heard somebody on TBN say that the word [b]pagan[/b] is Greek for [b]"diverse religion"[/b]. He was talking about how religion is pointless, while relationship is what you need. Of course I agree with him to an extent, religion without God is indeed dead... but it seems he was also refering to Christianity being labeled as a religion. I have no idea why Protestants seem to think the word "religion" = evil.

Anyways, does anyone know if this is true?

[Adeodatus]

That's a weird derivation of the word by the TBN guy....

Pagan comes from Latin 'paganus' (a villager, countryside-dweller), from 'pagus' (contryside, rural area).
Initially early Christians were to be found in cities, and people in the country were overwhelming heathens, hence the word 'pagan' came to mean 'non-Christian'.

The words "diverse religion" did remind me of something. In Greek, 'heresy' (hairesis) means 'choice'. So a heretic is someone who has a 'divergent choice' (hence 'diverse religion?).

[willguy]

Dude, what you watchin TBN fo? Seriously, go up to your TV, and flib up and down till you see the letters E-W-T-N. Then stop. There, much better.

But honestly, I agree with you. I don't know why Protestants don't like the term religion. I think part of it is because they equate religion with rituals and rituals with Catholicism. But let's face it, Christ was very religious. He practiced the Jewish law and rituals (the Last Supper was the Passover for cryin out loud).

Here, read this: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/columns/nothing/archives/00000016.htm"]http://www.phatmass.com/columns/nothing/ar...es/00000016.htm[/url]

[Dave]

I've always noticed many Protestants acting like religion is a bad thing too. They don't realized it's religion AND relationship, not either/or.

And Willguy, if I may stick up for Paladin, his parents watch TBN a lot, and he often gets stuck watching the stuff they watch.

[IcePrincessKRS]

And to add to what Dave said, I'm not so sure Paladin gets EWTN where he's at.

[MrsFrozen]

[quote name='willguy' date='Mar 9 2004, 10:07 AM'] Dude, what you watchin TBN fo? Seriously, go up to your TV, and flib up and down till you see the letters E-W-T-N. Then stop. There, much better. [/quote]
Have to agree with you, there! I was excited to have TBN and some other Christian channels when we first got our satellite dish. Unfortunately, when I watched them, I found they were preaching a lot of things I didn't agree with. Even more unfortunate is the fact that I don't get EWTN! Grrr.

[Paladin D]

Well since my parents know more about my beliefs, they don't urge me to watch TBN. But once in a while they have something on that I'm curious about, so I watch. If I had EWTN, I would be watching it 24/7.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Adeodatus' date='Mar 9 2004, 09:32 AM'] That's a weird derivation of the word by the TBN guy....

Pagan comes from Latin 'paganus' (a villager, countryside-dweller), from 'pagus' (contryside, rural area).
Initially early Christians were to be found in cities, and people in the country were overwhelming heathens, hence the word 'pagan' came to mean 'non-Christian'.

The words "diverse religion" did remind me of something. In Greek, 'heresy' (hairesis) means 'choice'. So a heretic is someone who has a 'divergent choice' (hence 'diverse religion?). [/quote]
Thanks, I tried looking for a Greek translator on the web... but couldn't find a good one.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='Mar 9 2004, 06:19 PM'] Thanks, I tried looking for a Greek translator on the web... but couldn't find a good one. [/quote]
The Greek word that is often used in the N.T. is [u]ethnikos[/u] which means pagan, heathen, foreigner, Gentile. This is the word used like in Mt 6:7.
Or [u]ethnos[/u] which means nation, people, non-Jews, Gentiles, pagans, heathen, unbelievers.
Not sure where the tv guy got his stuff.

Edited March 10, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='willguy' date='Mar 9 2004, 10:07 AM'] But let's face it, Christ was very religious. He practiced the Jewish law and rituals (the Last Supper was the Passover for cryin out loud).
[/quote]
Christ had to fulfill the law...and HE was BORN a JEW.

so why don't you practice ALL the Jewish rituals then, if you're so willing to point out how religious Christ was.

[willguy]

Okay, fair enuf Pal.

Lumberjack, who made the law? God. So,l if God doesn't like ritual, why would he make a law with so much of it?

[the lumberjack]

God made the law, because of sin...so the law came because of sin.

All the rituals, the sacrifices...because of sin.

God wanted man to be cleansed of His sin, so that He might be able to be with them...so He created the law. He gave the law to Moses, all the rituals and sacrifices and rules.

when Christ came, He fulfilled the law, by being born under it and living it PERFECTLY.

so WE as Christians are no longer bound by the law...but we are bound under grace...and that of Christ.

[Archangel]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 9 2004, 06:05 PM']Christ had to fulfill the law...and HE was BORN a JEW.

so why don't you practice ALL the Jewish rituals then, if you're so willing to point out how religious Christ was.[/quote]
... because Jesus instituted the 7 Sacraments instead.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 10 2004, 11:34 AM'] God made the law, because of sin...so the law came because of sin.

All the rituals, the sacrifices...because of sin.

God wanted man to be cleansed of His sin, so that He might be able to be with them...so He created the law. He gave the law to Moses, all the rituals and sacrifices and rules.

when Christ came, He fulfilled the law, by being born under it and living it PERFECTLY.

so WE as Christians are no longer bound by the law...but we are bound under grace...and that of Christ. [/quote]
So you are saying Christians shouldn't have rituals lumberjack? What about weddings? What about when Christ instituted the Eucharist in the context of the passover ritual and told the Apostles to "do this in memory of me"? Baptism is essentially a ritual. The laying on of hands for apostolic succession and the conferring of holy orders is a ritual. The Church has had rituals associated with the annointing of the sick with oils since the earliest times, etc.. The Fathers attest to the rituals which have come down from the Apostolic Age.

Documents such as the Didache (which was written by the first Christians even before some of the New Testament), and the writings of the earliest Christians (such as Justin Martyr) describe the ritual form of the Mass and the Eucharist in ways that are essentially the same as how the Mass is still celebrated by the Church to this day. Even Paul talks about the ritual of the Eucharist in the Scriptures.

And don't forget that the Jews were (and still are) a very ritualistic people. Jesus, as a Jew, performed rituals throughout his public ministry, and the Apostles did not abandon rituals after Christ's Ascension. They still went to the synagogue and had their own specifically Christian rituals (principly the Mass). Also the book of Revelation describes the marriage feast of the Lamb in a ritualistic way, complete with incense, canned, repetitive prayers and everything.

But obviously these things are far more than mere rituals, the Sacraments fulfill the old rituals and are supernatural realities that transcend time and space.

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Mar 10 2004, 05:44 PM']

[/quote]
[quote]So you are saying Christians shouldn't have rituals lumberjack? What about weddings? What about when Christ instituted the Eucharist in the context of the passover ritual and told the Apostles to "do this in memory of me"?[/quote]

I wasn't going to do this cuz I'm at my mom's house...but oh well...I love you guys and I LOVE talking about the Lord.... so here I go...at 3 in the am.

I'm not, nor have I stated as of yet, that we should not have rituals...but these "rituals" should not be something that is not found in the Bible...as I will continue to state... to take one that I see all the Catholics I know do..."crossing" themselves when they pass by a catholic church...first of all, thats NOWHERE in the Bible, second, the "CHURCH?" is JUST A BUILDING... church is not WHERE you meet...you could have church in your house...as MOST people did in the EARLY church and thruout the NT...and God would STILL be there. God is EVERYWHERE His believers are.

as for things like marriage, communion, prayer, laying hands, all things biblical...I would agree that we do need rituals like those...Christ said, WHEN you fast...not IF you fast...or, should you CHOOSE to fast...implying that we SHOULD fast...like when He said, WHEN you pray, pray like this.

[quote]Documents such as the Didache (which was written by the first Christians even before some of the New Testament), and the writings of the earliest Christians (such as Justin Martyr) describe the ritual form of the Mass and the Eucharist in ways that are essentially the same as how the Mass is still celebrated by the Church to this day. Even Paul talks about the ritual of the Eucharist in the Scriptures.[/quote]

and this? I don't know ANYTHING about the didache...so I'll read up on it...word. and I'll get back to you on this...and Paul never says Eucharist...ever.


[quote]And don't forget that the Jews were (and still are) a very ritualistic people. Jesus, as a Jew, performed rituals throughout his public ministry, and the Apostles did not abandon rituals after Christ's Ascension. They still went to the synagogue and had their own specifically Christian rituals (principly the Mass). Also the book of Revelation describes the marriage feast of the Lamb in a ritualistic way, complete with incense, canned, repetitive prayers and everything.[/quote]

and let the JEWS be as ritualistic as they want...if they CHOOSE not to realize that Christ is the Messiah, that is THEIR CHOICE...and last time I checked, I have YET to see a Jewis HIGH PRIEST make the atonement offering to the Lord...its not like something like THAT can go unnoticed. As for the Feast of the Lamb spoken of in Revelation, isn't that just figurative/metaphorical? or do you actually believe some of it to be literal?

[quote]But obviously these things are far more than mere rituals, the Sacraments fulfill the old rituals and are supernatural realities that transcend time and space.[/quote]

as for fulfilling the old rituals...we don't do that...Christ did it and does it for us whenever we sin...and as for the Sacraments? thats another topic....

love....without much sleep, and HIGH on Mountain Dew...

but its still love nonetheless.