ironmonk Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 We see clearly in the following verses that all who leave the Church established by Christ are wrong to do so. [b]Acts 20:30 [/b] And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them. [b]1 John 2:18[/b] Children, it is the last hour; 9 and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour. [b]19 [/b][u]They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number. [/u] [b]20 [/b]But you have the anointing that comes from the holy one, and you all have knowledge. [b]21 [/b]I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. [b]22 [/b]12 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist. [b]23 [/b]No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well. [b]24 [/b][u]Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father.[/u] [color=blue]We must search the writings from the beginning to know what is taught. I have and found it was Catholic. The Bible is a Catholic book. The Catholic Church is not a denomination. All non-Catholic churches claiming to be Christian are denominations of Catholicism. If the Catholic Church was not first, then show me which church was.[/color] [b]2 Peter 3:15 [/b] And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, [b]16 [/b]speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. [b]17 [/b]Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability. [color=blue]We know that the Church will never be overcome by the netherworld. Jesus promised us this. Therefore NO MAN has a right to change what God set forth, and all do so at their own destruction.[/color] [b] St. Matt 16:18[/b] "[color=red]And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.[/color]" [b]St. Matt 28:20 [/b][color=red]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.[/color]" [b]Luke 10:16 [/b]"[color=red]He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me[/color]" [b]St. Matt 5:13[/b] "[color=red]You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.[/color] [b]14 [/b] [color=red]You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. [/color] [b]15[/b] [color=red]Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. [/color] [color=blue]Sometimes a particular reply I get to the above verses is "You have a way of twisting scripture".... I say to this... "How is it twisted? Maybe you think it's twisted because it looks to be true. It looks to be true because it is. The only logical conclusion is that Christ established one Church for all time. Not 34,000 and growing every day." I simply point out the verses and their conscience draws the conclusion that they are wrong, so they scream "twister" to satisfy their conscience[/color] Holding fast to what was taught by Christ. Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 34,000 is way overdone. WAY overdone. From what I have personally researched 1,200 is much more appropriate. You can't call it a new denomination every time someone expresses their personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 2 is 1 too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Granted, but I don't let ya'll get away with misconceptions about the protestants any more than I let them get away with misconceptions about yous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 I am part of NO denomination. my faith and RELATIONSHIP lie solely with the Lord Jesus Christ. if you were to test me on this, and get to know me, you might see that my life is that of one seeking evermore to grow closer to God. I have yet to call the Roman Catholic Church (not any of you, though you all consider yourself part of that church, therefore will PROBLY take offense to that last remark) out on all its discrepancies and Biblical errancies. you can call me whatever you want...but if you hold my life up to God's word, you will find a servant, trying my hardest to be humble, loving and filled with the Lord. say what you will about all the Protestant denominations, it makes no difference to me...they could all pass away or join together, yet if they did not follow the Lord's word and allow themselves to be led by the Spirit, you would find me....and all the other true brethren in Christ, NOT found among their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 It's cool if you aren't part of any denomination. But they will still say you aren't fully reconciled to the body of Christ, the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 9 2004, 12:03 PM'] 34,000 is way overdone. WAY overdone. From what I have personally researched 1,200 is much more appropriate. You can't call it a new denomination every time someone expresses their personal opinion. [/quote] 34,000 is not overdone. It has nothing to do with opinion.It has to do with everyone grabbing a bible and starting up their own church. There were dozens if not hundreds of offshots in Luther's lifetime. Almost 500 years have past, do the math. I don't pull numbers out of thin air. I can't believe that you would insuate that I do, especially when the whole 34,000 thing has been debated before by others. According to the World Christian Encyclopedia in 2001 there were 34,000 denominations of Christianity. [url="http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/"]http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/[/url] 3 years ago there were 34,000 - God only knows how many there are now. New faiths are springing up almost everyday. It's big business, and people know it, they get their tax free monies and their set. The problem with protestantism is that it's not Catholic - it is not one faith, it's not what Jesus made. It's what Luther did. If a protestant in a particular protestant church disagrees, they can start their own church... built on their own beliefs, just as Luther, Knox, Clavin, Smith, etc... all did. And there is nothing to make them think otherwise because of protestant teaching. That's why there are so many anti-Catholics, for protestants to be right they must attack the Church to draw attention off of their own doctrine that falls apart when examined with Scripture. A Catholic cannot just go start a church, they either agree with the Church or they are simply wrong on the matter (in regards to faith and morals). Jesus guides His Church; Jesus stated that His Church would have the Spirit of Truth; the Apostles taught that the Pillar and Foundation of Truth is the Church (1 Tim 3:15); therefore Christ's Church will always be right. Now, what is a "pillar" and "foundation"? We see through other scriptures that "foundation" is solid, and should be built on a Rock (Kephas). We know that a pillar supports everything. If the pillar and foundation is the Church; the Church is the the solidness which is needed of the Faith in Christ Jesus. Without the Church, the true believers are scattered and divided by the evil one... doctrines of men fall... the only sound doctrine is that which Christ built. [quote]From what I have personally researched 1,200 is much more appropriate. [/quote] Maybe you need some help with your research skills or your definition of a denomination? God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Edited March 9, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Maybe you need to reread 1 Corinthians 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Philip. 2:3-11 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. [4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. [9] Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 This is slightly off topic, but related ... I heard Christopher West speak a couple of days ago, and he stated that every split off the Catholic church can be traced back at some level to a dispute about marriage. I can't attest to the veracity of the statement, but I'm planning to look into it. It's an interesting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Sounds fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 9 2004, 12:18 PM'] It's cool if you aren't part of any denomination. But they will still say you aren't fully reconciled to the body of Christ, the church. [/quote] anyone can say whatever they want. The fire of the Holy Spirit burns within me...and I am within the Church of Christ. and I have a passion for the Life I have in Christ...who has complete control of my life to do with as He pleases...(so long as I'm not being a punk about it) I KNOW that God has me where He wants me to be. and I KNOW that I [b]AM[/b] part of the Family of God...and I know that as I seek the Lord, and follow His word, He will continue to open me up to the fullness that is in Him and to a deeper understanding of His Word, His love, and His will for my life. John the Baptist had no church, yet he discipled people...he had no bible, yet he taught with authority, authority from God, and baptized for the remission of sins. I am in no wise saying that I am like John the Baptist...but I carry in me the Holy Spirit, who will not lead me astray...and leads me ever towards the next step the Lord wants me to take. God has supplied me with everything I'd need to make it...I have no authority of my own, but only seek to carry out the Lord's will. I do not interpret the scriptures of my own free will...but pray and search the scriptures for more. I lay prostrate before the Lord, spiritually and physically, waiting for that still, small voice to speak to me and say ANYTHING... that I might answer the call. the things I know, I don't know them just because I choose to acknowledge that I know them...I know them because of the HOLY GHOST...who searches me, and prunes me day by day...and puts people in my life to help me grow...wiser, stronger, and in love. peace and love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Mar 9 2004, 03:02 PM'] anyone can say whatever they want. The fire of the Holy Spirit burns within me...and I am within the Church of Christ. and I have a passion for the Life I have in Christ...who has complete control of my life to do with as He pleases...(so long as I'm not being a punk about it) I KNOW that God has me where He wants me to be. and I KNOW that I [b]AM[/b] part of the Family of God...and I know that as I seek the Lord, and follow His word, He will continue to open me up to the fullness that is in Him and to a deeper understanding of His Word, His love, and His will for my life. John the Baptist had no church, yet he discipled people...he had no bible, yet he taught with authority, authority from God, and baptized for the remission of sins. I am in no wise saying that I am like John the Baptist...but I carry in me the Holy Spirit, who will not lead me astray...and leads me ever towards the next step the Lord wants me to take. God has supplied me with everything I'd need to make it...I have no authority of my own, but only seek to carry out the Lord's will. I do not interpret the scriptures of my own free will...but pray and search the scriptures for more. I lay prostrate before the Lord, spiritually and physically, waiting for that still, small voice to speak to me and say ANYTHING... that I might answer the call. the things I know, I don't know them just because I choose to acknowledge that I know them...I know them because of the HOLY GHOST...who searches me, and prunes me day by day...and puts people in my life to help me grow...wiser, stronger, and in love. peace and love. [/quote] [b]AMEN!![/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Mulls is back!! Yay!!! Good to see you, stop lurking and start posting! (sorry, just got some good news and I'm a bit hyper!) peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Lumberjack, you sound alot like me. Yet, I still wonder where your authority comes from to learn blamelessly as your beliefs disagree with so many other protestants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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