Marriage Question

[StColette]

A husband is the head of his household just as Christ is the head of the Church. Marriage is to be a reflection of the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church. Now the husband being the head of the household does not mean he treats his wife like a slave nor does it mean that he makes all the decisions without asking her opinion and taking her opinion into account. A marriage that has the woman acting as slave and her opinion doesn't matter does not reflect the Bridegroom/Bride relationship between Christ and the Church. When a couple can not come to an agreement together on a matter and the husband feels that one way of handling the situation is best for all parties then he has the final decision. I would not wish to have such a burden as husbands do. Their vocation as husband, when handled correctly, is quite difficult. They have to be able to look at things objectively and when the one person they love the most disagrees with them on a matter they sometimes have to decide against them in favor of what is best.

[add]

the man may be the HEAD of the family; but only the wife can give birth! a fair trade off, i would think?

[HisChildForever]

[quote]They have to be able to look at things objectively and when the one person they love the most disagrees with them on a matter they sometimes have to decide against them in favor of what is best.[/quote]

But what if the man thinks his opinion is "better" than his wife's, and decides they should go with his opinion, when in reality they would've been better off going with the wife's opinion?

[Dust's Sister]

[quote name='StColette' post='1677228' date='Oct 14 2008, 10:55 AM']A husband is the head of his household just as Christ is the head of the Church. Marriage is to be a reflection of the relationship between Christ and His bride, the Church. Now the husband being the head of the household does not mean he treats his wife like a slave nor does it mean that he makes all the decisions without asking her opinion and taking her opinion into account. A marriage that has the woman acting as slave and her opinion doesn't matter does not reflect the Bridegroom/Bride relationship between Christ and the Church. When a couple can not come to an agreement together on a matter and the husband feels that one way of handling the situation is best for all parties then he has the final decision. I would not wish to have such a burden as husbands do. Their vocation as husband, when handled correctly, is quite difficult. They have to be able to look at things objectively and when the one person they love the most disagrees with them on a matter they sometimes have to decide against them in favor of what is best.[/quote]

good answer

[StColette]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1677358' date='Oct 14 2008, 04:29 PM']But what if the man thinks his opinion is "better" than his wife's, and decides they should go with his opinion, when in reality they would've been better off going with the wife's opinion?[/quote]

All I can say is that we are all human. Husband are responsible for making the final decision when a joint decision can not be reached mutually. They are to be both objective and loving in their decision and make a decision based on what is best for all involved not for themselves. If a husband objectively feels his opinion is what is best and bases his decision off of that and not because he doesn't want his wife to be right then he is doing a good job as a husband. Now if a husband goes with his opinion just because it's his opinion and he doesn't agree with his wife then he isn't being very loving and isn't being objective. Men have a lot of responsibility on their hands, not that women don't, but they are responsible with being objective and putting their feelings aside, which I think men do better than women especially when it is an emotionally charged issue. The whole matter comes down to intention. As long as the husbands intention is good about making a decision (clarification a good intention doesn't make something that is sinful or bad a good thing) then his heart is in the right place, which is the most important.

If, in the case you stated, a husband makes a decision because he feels his decision would be better when in reality his wife's option would have been better and his intention is not to overrule his wife just because he's the man then that's okay. We're human and we're going to be wrong sometimes. Micah has gone along with my opinion before when we disagreed on something and in the end it would have been better had we gone his route and vice versa. We've both been wrong on several things but we don't go "I told you so" when that happens. Marriage isn't about who has more power or the power to "veto" it's about being selfless and both husband and wife must be selfless. For example last night Micah really wanted to go to this one restaurant and I put up a fight about it because I wanted to go to a different one. He was very stubborn about it and so was I but it came down to the point that I realized this could be one of those moments where I could sacrifice what I want for what my husband wants. I'm glad I did. Turns out my coworkers had planned a baby shower for me at the restaurant Micah was trying to get me to go to.

Best advice to ask yourself when making a decision is "Am I being loving when I make this choice, is my choice based out of love for my spouse and family?"

[StColette]

I thought some of these quotes would be great to post here when it comes to this topic

Pope Pius XI

[quote]“The submission of the wife neither ignores nor suppresses the liberty to which her dignity as a human person and her noble functions as wife, mother, and companion give her the full right.

It does not oblige her to yield indiscriminately to all the desires of her husband; and his desires may be unreasonable or incompatible with her wifely dignity.

It does not mean that she is on a level with persons who in law are called minors. And minors are ordinarily denied the unrestricted exercise of their rights because of their immature judgment and not having enough experience.[/quote]



In Pope Pius XI’s own words:

[quote]“It refuses... to allow the heart to be separated from the head.”

“As the husband holds the primacy of authority, so the wife can and ought to claim the primacy of love.”[/quote]



St. JoseMaria Escrivá said (cf. The Navarre Bible — Captivity Epistles):

[quote]“On this basis of fundamental equality, each must achieve what is appropriate to him. Each must achieve what is appropriate to her.

Women are called to bring to the family, to society, and to the Church characteristics which are their own and which they alone can give:

— their gentle warmth,

— their untiring generosity,

— their love for detail,

— their quick-wittedness and intuition,

— their simple and deep piety,

— and their constancy.”[/quote]


St. John Chrysostom wonderfully said to the husbands about this passage:

[quote]“Have you seen the measure of obedience? Hear also the measure of love. Would you have your wife obey you as the Church obeys Christ? Then you care for your wife as Christ cares for the Church. And if it is necessary that you should give your life for her or be cut to pieces a thousand times or endure anything whatever, do not refuse it. He brought the Church to His feet by His great care, not by threats nor fear nor any such thing; so that’s how you must conduct yourself toward your wife!”[/quote]

Beautiful quotes

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html"]On the Dignity & Vocation of Women [/url] by Pope John Paul II would be something great to read as well.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' post='1677377' date='Oct 14 2008, 04:52 PM']For example last night Micah really wanted to go to this one restaurant and I put up a fight about it because I wanted to go to a different one. He was very stubborn about it and so was I but it came down to the point that I realized this could be one of those moments where I could sacrifice what I want for what my husband wants. I'm glad I did. Turns out my coworkers had planned a baby shower for me at the restaurant Micah was trying to get me to go to.[/quote]
It was really fun to act like a selfish jerk and see your reactions just to get you to a party.

[philothea]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1677358' date='Oct 14 2008, 04:29 PM']But what if the man thinks his opinion is "better" than his wife's, and decides they should go with his opinion, when in reality they would've been better off going with the wife's opinion?[/quote]

Then you deal with it. Obedience is a virtue. Humility as well. What do professed religious do when their superior tells them to do something stupid?

Best not to marry someone whose judgment you don't trust.

[quote name='StColette' post='1677377' date='Oct 14 2008, 04:52 PM']For example last night Micah really wanted to go to this one restaurant and I put up a fight about it because I wanted to go to a different one. He was very stubborn about it and so was I but it came down to the point that I realized this could be one of those moments where I could sacrifice what I want for what my husband wants. I'm glad I did. Turns out my coworkers had planned a baby shower for me at the restaurant Micah was trying to get me to go to.[/quote]

[StColette]

[quote name='philothea' post='1677389' date='Oct 14 2008, 05:20 PM'][/quote]

I know, I felt pretty silly for putting up such a fight before saying to myself "I'm gonna be selfless and go where he wants" lol

[Ash Wednesday]

Yeah, I thought I was really clever quoting My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Until I saw that CrossCut already posted it.




FAIL.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[CatherineM]

In the few things that we have truly disagreed about, and he basically had the last word, I thought I would be angry or feel second class, but instead I felt a great sense of relief. I took care of myself and made all my own decisions until I was 43 years old. Having him take that weight off my shoulders may be one of the greatest blessings I've received from the marriage. For a strong willed, opinionated female to admit that, is huge. Yielding to the way that God has made me, a woman and a wife, rather than fighting against the tide, is liberating.

[HisChildForever]

So if there really isn't a huge difference between husband and wife (I'm acknowledging that there's a difference), then why is it blown out of proportion sometimes? Or, I should ask, why is this little difference nitpicked and pulled apart so that it eventually turns into something it's not, which leads to argument? I mean this generally.

Anyway, if the only difference between husband and wife is that the husband is expected to have the final say, then why is this? Why can't the woman? Or why can't they just come to a compromise? Does Scripture say [i]why[/i] it's the man? Why does biology determine this?

[CatherineM]

This isn't based on my understanding of scripture, or on anything scientific. It is based purely on my experiences as a married woman. I feel compelled to do little things like straightening his collar as he goes out the door, or worrying over his hair needing a trim, in a way that I never have felt before. It's the same thing that makes him stop and grab my hand when going down a curb so I don't fall. When two people are joined in marriage, and live it in the right way, natural instincts come out in the same way that natural maternal instincts come out in new mothers. 99.9% of the time we either agree or come to a compromise. In that .1% where we couldn't, I yielded in faith in every case except one. He wanted to invest in a condo that was a bad investment. In that case, I pulled out my "lawyer knows best" card.

I wouldn't have believed it before being married. I was the epitome of a strong, independent woman, who could handle anything by herself. So, I am certainly willing to believe that it is biological, or perhaps something else deeper. Remember, marriage is a sacrament, which is outward sign of an internal grace being bestowed. I am willing to believe that the sacrament changed me, allowed me to experience being a true woman. That role, that I was born into, isn't a compromise, it isn't belittling. It is fulfilling if I let it be. I have seen a similar change in my husband. He has become more protective and sheltering.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1677457' date='Oct 14 2008, 06:34 PM']So if there really isn't a huge difference between husband and wife (I'm acknowledging that there's a difference), then why is it blown out of proportion sometimes? Or, I should ask, why is this little difference nitpicked and pulled apart so that it eventually turns into something it's not, which leads to argument? I mean this generally.

Anyway, if the only difference between husband and wife is that the husband is expected to have the final say, then why is this? Why can't the woman? Or why can't they just come to a compromise? Does Scripture say [i]why[/i] it's the man? Why does biology determine this?[/quote]


It's the man who has the final say because he is meant to be an image of Christ himself whose bride is the church and she lovingly submits to Him.


What with secular feminists that are gaining momentum this is a really hard thing for them to accept. I know because I go to a secular women's college! My history professor went as far as to say that the church saw women as either

1. sympathetically: Women are stupid and are like minors who can't take care of themselves.

2. misoginist: Women are agents of the devil because of what Eve did by cooperating with him and leading Adam into sin.

(Both takes are simply not true about how the church ever has or ever will view women.)

Have some men abused patriarchy in the name of faith. Yes, the bible can easily be twisted and taken out of context to suit other people's corrupt desires. Yet, not every man in church history or contemporary catholic men do this. It's the small percentage of the bad guys that get the attention unfortunately.

[LivingStone]

I've heard a lot of extreme feminists that denounce the Church's stance that "doesn't see women as equal of men"...

In a sense, men and women aren't equal (in the sense of sameness). When our Creator has made man and women, he has made each soul differently. I believe, from the philosophy that I've learned, that gender is NOT determine physically; rather, is determined from the soul, and the gender differences physically is an expression of the differences in the soul.

In example, I feel that it is written on the man's heart to be head of the household. This doesn't imply domination, but a power and duty to protect the household. Just as Christ was the head of the Church, so too is man the head of a household. This means that man needs to be ready to die as Christ did for his household, and especially his wife. I feel it is written on the woman's heart to take a less external active role in protection and is the foundation of the household [i]internally[/i].

Is every household perfect where this is the case? no. Are men and women equal (meaning sameness)? no, I don't think they were supposed to be. They are not the same and many people are trying to intermix the two genders:
-Men are trying to take the woman's role, and problems happen
-Women are trying to take the man's role, and problems happen
-Men are trying to become women and women are trying to become men by means of a sex change, but as I said earlier, God made you a man, you are a man (written on your soul, cannot change it despite physicalities)...

That's it. Let me know what ya think.